Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Gladiatorial marble reliefs recovered
#16
The tubae that are played date to BC not AD...my opinion. :wink:
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
Reply
#17
Laudes to the Italian Police, not matter what else.
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
Reply
#18
Quote:Nice one Mike (I cleaned up your link). A laudes for you.

Wow, thanks! Big Grin
Mike van der Linden

You are not a busy man, you make of yourself a busy man.....
Reply
#19
Any further news on these?
Dan Diffendale
Ph.D. candidate, University of Michigan
Reply
#20
Their helmets closely resemble some late Hellenistic models.
Laran aka Sait
Reply
#21
Quote:Their helmets closely resemble some late Hellenistic models.

The helmets, the shields, and the overall style are thoroughly late Hellenistic in date. The instant I saw these pictures without reading any description I pegged them as 1st century BC.
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
Reply
#22
Still not unmasked as an imitation yet ?!
Lucius Domitius Aurelianus
Patrik Pföstl

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.roemer.ch.vu">http://www.roemer.ch.vu

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.celtae.de/SihFrewen/index.php">http://www.celtae.de/SihFrewen/index.php


[Image: o3.gif]

.
Reply
#23
Quote:Still not unmasked as an imitation yet ?!

You doubt its authenticity ?
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
Reply
#24
Quote:
Aurelianus:2o0jzvfx Wrote:Still not unmasked as an imitation yet ?!

You doubt its authenticity ?


Yes I do! I'm quite sure that it is a fake.
Lucius Domitius Aurelianus
Patrik Pföstl

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.roemer.ch.vu">http://www.roemer.ch.vu

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.celtae.de/SihFrewen/index.php">http://www.celtae.de/SihFrewen/index.php


[Image: o3.gif]

.
Reply
#25
What is it that make you think it a fake ?
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
Reply
#26
Quote:What is it that make you think it a fake ?
Go back to Cesary's post with a list.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
Reply
#27
"Romans not use that tool, because oftenly the surface of his marbles, and specially the Luni-Carrara, was left very very smooth"


I will have to defer on this but this is a basic mistake for someone who has sourced large amounts of marble :?

"Normally in archaeology is not often to find some kind of representations, and that conjunt have a lot of them:"

"What about the finger signal?"

I don't have a full set of the pictures but if this isi refering to the index finger appeal for mercy then this is attested to elsewhere, the Zliten mosiac IIRC. Aslo http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... f%26sa%3DG

"What about the hand guards depicted only in pugilatum?"

Again these are attested to also and have been recreated in Das Spiel Mit Dem Todd by M Junkelmann. See link below also.

"What about the eyebrows (gallic helmet style) in the helmets?"

I dont see why this should be questioned? See link below.


"What about a cord subjecting the pommel of the sword to the gladiator's hand?"

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... f%26sa%3DN

Tab down to the picture near number 2.

"And, finally, the great question. WHY THE LOOTERS BURIED THE RELIEFS?

The only explanation it's for aging."


To hide them ?

If this is a fake then I congratulate the perps as they have done a good job, well researched.
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
Reply
#28
Avete friends,
this the study executed from Ars Dimicandi for the Ministry of the Assets and the cultural activities on purpose of riliefs of Roman Fiano.
http://www.arsdimicandi.net/ad_1_00010a.htm ( in Italian language)

Valete
Reply
#29
Can someone give us an English translation, at least of the most pertinent parts?
Pecunia non olet
Reply
#30
I'm not very fluent in italian but from the parts i can read they are describing the equipment of the gladiators depicted in the reliefs.

In the tittle it says that Arsdimicadi explains the misterous gladiatorial categories

(First Part images 1 to 4)
They say the equipment its characteristic of the gladiators of that period.
The equipment isnt very different from the later gladiators except for the helmets wich later were closed and the "brachialia" wich was replaced by the manica.

It seems there are three types of gladiators depicted in the reliefs. The galli and the ones that will be knownby the categorie of parmulari and scutari a.k.a thacian and murmillo

In the images 1-2 the kneeling gladiator is a thracian that uses a rounded shield wich "Plinio" describes has one of two typologies of parmulari.
Its seem that Arsdimicandi started using a type of Thracian called Aequimanus that mean ambidexter or "Thracian A" because it uses in one hand the sica and in the other a short spear

(It seem that in this picture they assume its the Aequimanus in the left and a thracian in the right
http://www.arsdimicandi.net/ad_1_i000948.gif )

The usual oponent for the Thracian A is the murmillo or the greek version the hoplomachus

('im confused Confusedhock: with the last part)

In picture 3-4 there are 2 Galli fighting that in the imperial age were renamed probably essedari.
Their equipment tends do be like the provocator.
A sistematic characteristic of this categorie is "ovaloid" shield visible in image 3

This pair fought each other with a spatha (sole example of gladiators fighting with a longer sword)

The galli used ocreas (parastinchi) later substitued by simple fascae tibales (fasce tibiali) and an helm without "falde"(sorry dont know what that is)

Images 5 and 6 depict a fight "ad digitum" beetween a thracian and a murmillo.
The Thracian in on the floor with is finger raised and the curved sica (sica supina) is on the floor next to him.
The thracian fought generally against murmillos and very rarely against other thracians.


Has i said my italian isnt very good so dont take my words for it, perhaps someone can translate it better.

From the links to the italian ministry of cultural activities it seems they consider it has the real deal, not a fake
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Times today- 12 Gladiator reliefs from 1st C BC recovered Caballo 8 2,454 01-25-2007, 07:44 PM
Last Post: TITVS SABATINVS AQVILIVS

Forum Jump: