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Pugio Database Structure
#31
Yes, I would definitely include a 'now kept in' catagory, as well as a 'where found' catagory, both of which would aid in matching them up with references in books and articles, as well as pointing people in the right direction for seeing them themselves and advertising the museum, as Jasper says.

I would also like to see a period catagorisation, such as Spanish, 1st century BC, first century AD, second century AD and 3rd century AD. Obviously there would be some overlap between the first three periods as well as the last two. Alternatively (and perhaps this might work better) we could list suggested dates of deposition with search catagories divided into perhaps twenty or twenty five year periods.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#32
All right, the changes!

Better than "spanish" could be iberian or iberic?

For the dates of deposition, in archeology (pottery datation) is more used a division in quarters of century, so better were 25 years.

Nice project!
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#33
Bump!

Martin, how goes the pugio database project?

Inquiring minds want to know, Big Grin

Lucianus
L.E. Pearson
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#34
Hi Lucianus,

glad to see the lack of progress did not go totally unseen - and at the same time not (i.e. feeling bad because I haven't done anything for so long) :-P P .

I'm afraid that over the summer months I was just simply to busy with lots of other things. I plan to invest time in this and hope to get it started over the next winter, quite certainly not before though :-( (
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#35
Martin,

Please don't interpret this as nagging! :wink: The project just sounded very cool and I was interested as to what was going on with it. I understand about the busy summer, I'm the coordinator of food service for a 14th century event that coming up in 2 weeks. Its looking like we're going to get over 500 people so I've kind of had a lot on my mind. Confusedhock:

Cheers,

Lucianus
L.E. Pearson
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#36
I have been very busy too but I still feel embarrassed about not having done anything on this very worthy project for quite a while now. I have a drawing of the three types of sheath which I will post up soon, once I have added the appropriate labels, to demonstrate the names of the different parts of each sheath type according to the nomenclature which I use. It may still be a week or two though.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#37
I can help with that project, if i can.

Problem it's to divides the work, for don't make the same work two times by two diferent people.
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#38
Here is a Yahoo Group for study and design of the Pugio - has lots of photos
of Original and reprduction Pugios also links and files of interest.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pugio

Needs to have a link added to the Pugio database.
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#39
Hi,

Is there an original late republican pugio found ? What was the handle made from ? Organic material ?

If so, does someone can send me pictures ?

Many thanks in advance.

Hervé CAILLAU
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#40
A number of late Republican period pugiones have indeed been found. Most of these have survived as blades without handles but those whose handles have survived are made from iron and are very like the well known early Imperial types, but I would suggest that the pommel expansions should be round rather than the more triangular shape found during the first century AD. You might also expect the see one or more of the internal constructional rivets visible on the outer surface of the grip above or below the central expansion. I will PM you a few pictures.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#41
Big Grin

Thanks so much for your quick answer Crispus/Paul.

I am waiting for your pictures impatiently.

All the best.

Hervé CAILLAU
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#42
Here at long last is my drawing of the three types of sheaths. The purpose of this (admittedly rather rough) drawing is to define the nomenclature for sheaths and their parts according to the nomenclature I already use.

[Image: Sheathdiagram.jpg]

The decoration has been added purely to be representative of the fact that these types were decorated and has been simplified somewhat (as well as being quickly and roughly drawn). The frame type sheath is my take (in the absence of an x-ray) on what the Tarent sheath might have looked like (informed by the Titelberg and Exeter sheaths).

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#43
Gentlemen,

Apologies for tagging on the end of this thread but....what do we know of the handles for rod tang pugios (if anything)? Are they just smaller versions of gladii handles or something completely different?
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
Moderator

COH I BATAVORVM MCRPF
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#44
As i know, the rod tang pugios have the same kind of handle of the full tang pugios. The rod are secured by peening his extrem or by rivets. The rod is inserted in the organic part of the handle, so the handle have only 3 layers: one central organic layer covered by two metallic plates each side.

Probably that kind of tang were a litle inestable, and some pugios have lost their original handle, as we know some raw substitution handles. One of Vindonissa is a gladius bone grip (whitout the pommel and guard), and another one is a piece of wood, probably the handle of a tool.
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#45
Thanks Cesar,

So a "complete' rod tang pugio has not been found (yet) other than those repaired types from Vindonissa?
Sulla Felix

AKA Barry Coomber
Moderator

COH I BATAVORVM MCRPF
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