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Sword, I century AD
#31
Quote:Yes, indeed you're completely right they are similar in conception. In fact they respond to the same sort of anthropomorfization of the hilt.
My point was (or intended to be, I hurried too much) that there is not a DIRECT link between Celtic anthropomorphic hilts and Celtiberian trilobate hilts. My opinion is that they respond to a parallel development (more than a bit later in Iberia).

This would be something which would be nice to explore further.

If we are dealing with a tri-lobate pommel dating between 100BC to 100AD then it is some time after adoption of the Hispaniensis so a parralel developement sounds reasonable. Considering this there might have been some cross cultural polonisation of hilt styles. For instance I have read that in the British Isles the swords were influenced by Roman styles, even before Claudius.
Conal Moran

Do or do not, there is no try!
Yoda
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#32
How much is wide the blade, Bruno? The weight has been measured?
"Each historical fact needs to be considered, insofar as possible, no with hindsight and following abstract universal principles, but in the context of own proper age and environment" Aldo A. Settia

a.k.a Davide Dall\'Angelo




SISMA- Società Italiana per gli Studi Militari Antichi
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#33
The sword has been removed with a portion of soil surrounding it, waiting for the restoration that should be carried out next year. For this reason at the moment it is impossible to weight it.
The blade is still inside what remain of the sheath, so no way to take precise measurement.
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#34
So I take it is Dimeh...

It is the 1st AD context firm? Or could we have a 1st BC?
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#35
I think is a big finding; a blade about 20 cm longer that the found hispanienses. If the sword is roman,it is a chimera, especially if it is from I AD.
"Each historical fact needs to be considered, insofar as possible, no with hindsight and following abstract universal principles, but in the context of own proper age and environment" Aldo A. Settia

a.k.a Davide Dall\'Angelo




SISMA- Società Italiana per gli Studi Militari Antichi
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#36
Unfortunately the archaeological context doesn't help, so far. It will be investigated further during the next campaigns.
1st AD dating came from the palmyren relief, which was the first comparison we found.
In depth studies will be carried out during the next weeks though it is likely we will have to wait the restoration to get further details and precise measurements about the blade.
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#37
Yeah... I think I remember last time I was at Dimeh I saw lots of Roman pottery.. but also a very diagnostic rim of black glaze, 36L (Lamboglia) shape dish... which is of course Campanian ware, 1sth half 2nd Centrury BC.
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#38
Remember the Arlon monument 60 - 70 AD with two tri-lobate pommels

[img][Image: Arlonruiters60-70AD.jpg]

Season Greetings to All

Luc
LVCIVS VVLPES
Luc De Vos
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#39
Very good point. I was just trying to emphasize that these pommels have a long time-span of existence, therefore we must be very cautious when trying to fix a date, specially if archaeological context is not very precise.
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#40
BTW, I saw you last night on tv Fernando! (Off Topic, sorry... :oops: )
[Image: 120px-Septimani_seniores_shield_pattern.svg.png] [Image: Estalada.gif]
Ivan Perelló
[size=150:iu1l6t4o]Credo in Spatham, Corvus sum bellorum[/size]
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#41
I can't see any reason why the trilobate pommel would just disappear, especially as later spathae were the basis for Viking swords, and they could have the same basic influence in the pommel.
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#42
Quote:Remember the Arlon monument 60 - 70 AD with two tri-lobate pommels. Luc

There's a very similar style (not exactly anthropomorphic) on the
Kirkburn Sword in the British Museum:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compa ... id=OBJ1304

Ambrosius / Mike
"Feel the fire in your bones."
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#43
More than eight years have gone since I started this thread asking for help from the forum members and more than six years since I posted the first photo of the sword under restoration.

But now the restoration has been completed, the sword has been carefully studied and an article has been published as an NYU ISAW paper no. 9, by Paola Davoli, director of the mission at Soknopaiou Nesos and the archaeologist who dug it, and Christian Micks, of the Römisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum Forschungsinstitut für Archäologie, Mainz, who , I guess, you all know very well.

The article is freely available at http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/9/
(under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License).

Thank you !
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#44
http://dlib.nyu.edu/awdl/isaw/isaw-papers/9/

very interesting paper written by Ch Miks. I only had time to scan through it but is a sword that might be late Ptolemaic or republican. Article is full of detail as Mr. Miks obviously get us used to.
Have fun reading it, and of course I would like you dare reproduce it Idea
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#45
A quick update from the last campaign: a 3D view of the pommel.

https://p3d.in/2xd3d
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