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Sagum Mania!
#16
Quote:
Tarbicus:3s66nbwt Wrote:and polyester trousers really do go 'whoomph!' when they catch fire?
Not from personal experience I hope... Big Grin

Tesco Tearaways, the fireman's nightmare. What happened to Aitor's beard? Did that go whoomph?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#17
He's got it back, but in exchange for a loss of 20 kilos... Sad
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#18
[Image: cloak.jpg]
~ Paul Elliott

The Last Legionary
This book details the lives of Late Roman legionaries garrisoned in Britain in 400AD. It covers everything from battle to rations, camp duties to clothing.
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#19
Back here again...
Robert,
Many thanks for answering questions on my behalf! Big Grin
(Oh, and it was good and deliberated to loss those 20 kilos, I had reached an over-plump condition during the first half of 2005! :roll: )

Jim,
I'm usually beardless, except during re-enactment periods and, don't worry, I wore my polyester pants under the woollen ones! :wink:

Travis,
Forget about that trapezoidal shape, please. Try with a semicircular shape and you'll look exactly like if you were accompanying Justinian on the Ravenna mosaic!
You have a clue on a small sketch on Graham Sumner's Roman Military Clothing I (Sorry, I haven't it with me now and I cannot recall the page) An oval cloak from Egypt, with two elongated rectangular patches, the tabliones. Fold it in two (Do it perpendicularly to the inset rectangles) and you'll have a canonical one. I'll try to post on the following days images from Theodosius' missorium and a Consular dyptich where it can be clearly seen that those courtly cloaks were double thickness, folded in two! 8)

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#20
Hello Aitor

Quote:Travis,
Forget about that trapezoidal shape, please. Try with a semicircular shape and you'll look exactly like if you were accompanying Justinian on the Ravenna mosaic!
You have a clue on a small sketch on Graham Sumner's Roman Military Clothing I (Sorry, I haven't it with me now and I cannot recall the page) An oval cloak from Egypt, with two elongated rectangular patches, the tabliones. Fold it in two (Do it perpendicularly to the inset rectangles) and you'll have a canonical one.

I was going to ask you if you have made a reconstruction of this one?

Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.

"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.

"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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#21
Not yet Graham, maybe next year... Sad
At least I bought the fabric when I had money to do so! :lol:

As promised, here goes the first image:
[Image: TeodosioA.jpg]
Look at this courtier from Theodosius' dish and how the originally square (say Tongue ) 'proto-tabliones' are foldered by their middle.

And the second one:
[Image: Constantius.jpg]
Constantius III, nonetheless! :roll: Look at the double 'hem' line and also how the 'proto-tabliones' are also folded by the middle.

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#22
The simple line drawing you mentioned is actually in RMC 2, not RMC 1. It appears on page 11 and is even kind enough (thank you Graham!) to give exact dimensions. It describes the oval as being 2.86m x 2.42m.

So you're of the opinion that the more rounded edges indicate ecclesiastical vestments? Is this borne out in any other artistic examples from the period? Makes fairly good sense that there would be some kind of distinction, though. The rest of Justinian and his entourage (in the Ravenna mosaic) definitely appear sport more rectangular duds.
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#23
Franklin,
Thanks for the correction! Big Grin
Ecclesiastical vestiments??!!! Confusedhock:
Who has suggested that? Confusedhock:
No, a semicircular (i.e. oval fodled in two) cloak is exactly what gives the 'rectangular' look we all are searching! :wink:

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#24
Sorry, yes, now that I picture it in my head it makes more sense.

The other confusion came from your post at the bottom of pg 1. I mixed the words "canonical" and "ecclesiatical" in my mind.
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#25
Everything is clear now, I hope! Big Grin
Of course, I didn't intend to mean that I felt offended in any way. If that was the case, I apologize (plus blaming the scarcity of emoticons at our forum! Tongue )

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#26
No apologies needed. I'm familiar enough with RAT now to realize it takes more than a misinterpreted post to ruffle somebody's feathers. If that were the case, these forums would go up in flames on a daily basis!

The oval dimensions to beg a question however. Did they have looms capable of weaving bolts a full 8' across?!? Or were these cloaks pieced together? Two 9' x 4' bolts seems more believable, but then you have a seam right down the middle of your cloak. It would be right on the fold, however, so maybe not so noticeable.
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#27
Boy, we do get obsessed with the minutiae, don't we?
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#28
Franklin,

Be SURE, that they woven the darned thing in just one piece! You can construct a vertical, warp-weighted loom as big as you need and that is one of the reasons why such garments were so horribly expensive (The other one being the price of the luxury raw materials employed in them)!

We, poor 21st century reenactors are compelled to reconstruct military cloaks and togas in two pieces because the only fabric availables (even if hand-woven like mine, furnished by Cacaius) don't exceed a width of 150 cm! Sad
An additional problem for the chlamys is that the tabliones should be embroidered, painted, stitched across the seam... :evil:

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#29
That shouldn't be a problem, though, right? Just sew the appliqued piece across the seam? In fact, to my thinking that would even help mask it. Or were the tabliones actually meant to be woven into the fabric?
Franklin Slaton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
Your mother wears caligae!
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#30
Franklin,
Real tabliones were woven into the fabric but that is out of our reach now and, therefore, also out of question! :wink:

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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