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Music of Ancient Rome and Greece
#46
P.S.
Probably you would tell us something interesting about the meeting
of the International Study Group on Musicarchaeology?
What did seem most interesting for you?
Which projects you could recommend for us?
Which new records should we expect?
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#47
Susanna,
What do you think of the Italian group 'Ludi Scaenici'? They are invited every year to the Tarraco Roman festival.
I like their music and their instruments but, of course my knowledge on Ancient music is not very deep...

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#48
Waiting for Susanna... Big Grin
Well, while we are waiting for Susanna, some more information, which could be interesting for somebody.
For those who would like to listen to Musica Romana (Susanna herself is playing!!! Big Grin
http://www.emmuty.de/katalog/EM020.php

Also I want to mention one more CD, which could be interesting for you.
Search the following link:
http://www.cd-baroque.com/francais/3600 ... ylos&B1=OK
You could find CD by Annie Belis and Ensemble Kerylos "Ancient Greek Music" (15 tracks). CD presents mostly the same pieces which you could find on CDs by Atrium Musicae of Madrid (without fragments of doubtful origin) and Ensemble De Organographia (on their CDs - mentioned above - you would find 33 tracks of Ancient Greek music, they recorded some fragments founded in Oxyrynchus in the last decades). Of course, you would hear music by Mesomedes of Crete, friend and musician of Emperor Hadrian. The sound of this CD by Annie Belis is big and solemn with mezzo-soprano by Genevieve Bousquet. It is a kind of Baroque version of Ancient Greek music.
Well, it is philosophical question, why we need so much versions of the same pieces? And some could answer in post-modern style, that we are listening not to Ancient Greek and Roman music but to the music of modern performers, so the value of this records is low, it`s only modern mind game.
But why we are wathcing "Hamlet" in different versions and still it is interesting? I think that it is interesting because of the global humane ideas by Shakespeare, not because of actor playing or new tricks by the directors in the cinema or in the theater.
So I think that each new performance (even not truely authentic and accurate) helps us to understand this music and the culture of Antique world a little bit better - probably the quantity of the records and performances would turn into new quality. As I read the first performances of Delphic hymnes in the end of the 19th century (of course on modern instruments) were complete disillussion for the listeneres while now we are used to the world music and we are enjoing these records.
Probably as in Renaissance epoch Italian composers in attempt to re-create Ancient Greek tradition of singing and playing music in theatrical plays invented opera - we also would see not only new level of understanding of Ancient Greek and Roman music but we would see the appearance of new art forms?
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#49
Hi Sergey,

well...duh...we had concerts during the weekend, starting Friday with travelling to Austria and playing there on Saturday and back in the night and playing Sunday in Germany and then yesterday evening back home...and Saturday was an outside-concerts with rain and coolness...the string-instruments really did not enjoy it ;-) )

I think the people do not think that Omnia is authentic, because it is said in the CD very clair that this is played with instruments inspired by Antiquity and music that is self-written. As long as you inform your customers like that its quite ok and honest for me.
We have also self-written pieces, but played and carefully handmade reconstructions of archaeological founds or descriptions of ancient instruments. Of course the written sources of Mesomedes for example are real pieces of that period, but it is more easy to play them correct (even though I wonder why a lot of people do not) but it is more heavy to create an authentic sound!
I have seen some bardic group playing metal-strings on their lyras for example :?

Soundexamples are prepared to go online dirung the summer, we wanna record simple examples for every instruments as mp3s and also maybe from the new CDs, but have a little patience ;-) )

Belis is a phantastic researcher, all her books I can recommand very much. But honestly the CD is a little to classic for my taste...exactly what you think Sergey ;-) )
Modern Opera-singing in French and Italian Baroquen-singing-school is not very ancient somehow, but is also a form of an interpretation. For me it sounds all a bit slow and dry...but if you are interested in ancient music, you should not miss it. :wink:

We recorded all the ancient songs new at a Live-concert in Radio and we will release it as an album this summer. One thing that I saw often during the last years was that the groups with ancient music did not sound live what they sound on CD, which I think is very much of a pity. I mean studio is ok, but you should be able to perform that also live :lol:

I know Ludi Scaenici, I saw them live and know the CD...the show is great , I love the dancing girls :wink:
Their were ones one group with Synaulia, their are the people who played mostly the reed-instruments on their first and second CDs. The music is self-written. They do not sing...its a show-troup. They are very good musicians. But their music is as authentic as I think from Synaulia...same mistakes...double flutes...single-reeds...all sold as tibiae. Totally nonesens! Sounds like a nice interepretation of what people expect from Roman music. But I miss much research of the instruments and ancient musical theory.
Also Synaulia has written on the backside of their CD: "First earnest try of the reconstruction of ancient Roman music"...simply not true...their are recordings already in the 60s!

But I think all the recordings do good work, it interests people in the theme and it helps to learn from mistakes.

Sergey, do you speak German? Our CD is only availible with a German booklet at the moment...email me your private adress and you will own the first of our panflute-CDs in Russia soon...hey, by the way...I just recocnize that me husband speaks Russian
Tongue
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
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#50
Salve!

One stupid question: when I am in our summerhouse I play my 5-string "Kantele" (a traditional finnish, also an instrument of the heroes of Kalevala). The strings are played open, so you just pick the strings you play and mute the others.

I have tried to find some "homeric" open scale to the instrument and this is what I use:

D , E , F# , G# , A

Any suggestions how I could achieve even more "bronze-age" sound :wink: ?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
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#51
Dear Virilis,

wow Kantele...with hole or without, I mean this gusli-thinnie or a modern one.
I think they date back to the 13th cent., so says my husband...

Well, I think if you use goat-strings it would be the most authentic, I guess you are using metall-strings at the moment?
But I think a Kantele owns not enough sound-body for resonanz to play goat-strings. Maybe you should try hemp-strings are horsehair-strings.

Do you play with a plektrum? You should maybe try.

The tuning is very good if you wanna play with other musical instruments are just be able to play most pieces, I think changing tuning to often on a string-instrument harms the tuning.
So, open tuning is the most logical. :wink:

Which wood is your Kantele of?
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
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#52
Susanna, here is the link to my "kantele":

http://lovikka.com/eng/perinteinen_5kielinen.html

I just bought it last week, I thought it would be nice to play with it after the sauna on the lake.....

I developed this tuning just to make it sound "homeric :wink: " I usually play acoustic/electric guitar (from Stevie Ray Vaughan to Jethro Tull). The strings are made of steel and not very traditional. I play it with my fingers. I think the instrument itself is made of pine...

Anyway it sounds very nice and perhaps I should buy a ten string one to get more variety to the playing, what do you think?
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
PHILODOX
Moderator
[Image: fectio.png]
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#53
Big Grin Thank you very much, Susanna!!!
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#54
Big Grin D

Above in this topic there`s a link to works by Ioannidis Nicolaos.
I repeat it:
http://homoecumenicus.com/Ioannidis_Mus ... ligion.htm

http://homoecumenicus.com/ioannidis_mus ... greeks.htm

What do you think of these works?


P.S. Probably it would be interesting to somebody - here`s the link to CD by David Marshall, which was discussed above:

http://www.rvrcd.co.uk/catalogue/romanm ... sintro.htm
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#55
Beside the plastic-kithara with metall strings and an absolute modern tuning mechanism...

After listening to the mp3s I think of modern Greek Folk Music with Guitar and a nice good singer, which he defenitly is.
The percussion sounds quite synthesizing...

I do not hear any metrical pronounciation, which would be necessary for ancient Greek language. All sylables seem to have the same lenght.
In modern Greek language you have only short sylables, in ancient you have long and short. So no ancient rhythm appears for me hear, altough he seems to sing some words and sylables longer than others.

The tuning is very modern and folky, I think none ancient tonality appeared to me exept dorian.

With the Sappho text I do not hear any Sapphian strophe.
But maybe they slowed it down?

Sounds like a very nice interepretation of ancient Greek textes in modern Greek Folk musical tradition. Nice to listen to and quiet a soft voice and a good guitar/kithara (whatever is played there) player.
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
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#56
Thank you, Susanna, I understood you :wink:
And what do you think of information posted by Hoplite 14gr on 3 Apr. 2006 ("Stairway to Heaven" by Led Zeppelin written in Doric Anapestos)?
I mean, it isn`t a joke?
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#57
Niet Sergey!
It is not prikol (joke). The issue has been reserched by my friend G. Iliopoulos in an article he wrote on Epicharmos and doric comedy.
Remove the electronics and the guitars and test the beat wth drams.
It is Doric anapestos!
Kind regards
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#58
Privet, Stefanos!
You knowledge of Russian is impressive Smile . Probably Page and Plant are well-educated persons, who read much classic literature and listened much to performers of folk and medieval (or even Antique) music?
Probably that`s explanation why this song so emotional, impressive, charming and popular - it remides to the listeners about deep roots and ancient spirit of European culture, and people are impressed not by Led Zeppelin itself but by that ancient essence, which contains this song.
By the way, this question was interesting for me because my interest to ancient music started with... "Stairway to Heaven". In 1988 (it was time of so-called perestroyka) in the USSR for first time was released LP by LedZep with this song. I was a student and for me it was a new song in that time. I was very impressed. After that I had heard for the first time records of Estonian group Hortus Musicus. They performed music of the Middle Ages and the Renaissance. It reminded me of "Stairway to Heaven" and I understood that I liked not Led Zeppelin itself but these medieval influences in thier music. And so I started to listen to the ancient music...
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#59
P.S.
One more performer of Ancient Greek music - Petros Tabouris.
Probably it would be interesting to somebody.

http://rateyourmusic.com/artist/petros_tabouris

Susanna, had you heard this guy Big Grin ?
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#60
If I am not mistaken...I have to check my disk-collection.

But lately there were several CDs from Greece on the market, with also "Roman" and "Bible" and "Mesopotamian" music...the CDs were self-burnt, the Label was just sticked on the CD (no print) and the Cover was one side with no real information...just claiming to be ancient.
And in fact...they were really bad...

I guess this is something different...it looks much better...I mean the cover ;-) )

Do you have it?

Hey, I am still waiting for your adress to send the CD
:wink:
Susanna

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.musica-romana.de">www.musica-romana.de

A Lyra is basically an instrument to accompaign pyromanic city destruction.
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