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Vikings impact on Rome
#1
Hello, what do you think about Vikings impact on Roman empire? As article says, Bjorn Ironside invaded Roman Empire, with the similar story to Trojan horse. Actually, Bjorn acted he is dying, and wanted to convert to Christianity. Christian bishops allowed several Vikings to bring the body. With this trick, they acquired Luni, and then they were heading to Pisa, and Fiesole. When they acquired enough loot, they were heading to the Eastern Mediterranean, where they lost a battle by Muslims!! 

So, how come that glorious Roman empire couldn't handle a bunch of
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#2
(04-21-2018, 12:31 PM)Josip199 Wrote: what do you think about Vikings impact on Roman empire?

In the west? There wasn't any. The western Roman empire collapsed in the 5th century, while the Vikings didn't turn up until the 9th century.

The legend in the page you linked, about Björn Ironside's capture of Luni, supposedly dates to cAD860. The last Roman emperor was deposed nearly 400 years before that. The Vikings would have been invading the Frankish Kingdom of Italy, not the Roman Empire.
Nathan Ross
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#3
Nathan, just curious. What did the Frankish Kingdom of Italy call itself? Is the term a modern construct like our usage of the term "Byzantine Empire" to describe the Eastern Roman Empire? Did the term "Roman Empire" actually fall out of usage in the West to describe the region that was once ruled by the city of Rome? I've always been fascinated by the term "Holy Roman Empire" (Latin: Sacrum Romanum Imperium) which apparently came into usage in about 800 AD with the Pope suddenly making Charlemagne a "Roman Emperor" and by extension his realm "Roman" or rather 'Holy Roman" lol.
Joe Balmos
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#4
(04-24-2018, 03:34 PM)Creon01 Wrote: What did the Frankish Kingdom of Italy call itself? 

I'm not sure! As far as I'm aware, the old Lombard kingdom was conquered by the Franks at the end of the 8th century and became a part of the Frankish Empire; apparently it was still referred to as a kingdom, although when or by whom, or in what language, I don't know.

As Charlemagne was apparently crowned Holy Roman Emperor in 800, I suppose we could refer to it as part of the Holy Roman Empire, although whether the inhabitants of that part of Italy would have used the term, or even have known of it, is another matter!
Nathan Ross
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#5
When I first became aware of how much terminology modern historians created to describe ancient things, places and events I was a bit surprised!

I think the "Byzantines" and their enemies called the people of Constantinople "Romans" up until the very end.
Joe Balmos
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#6
Not an expert on that era, but I wonder how many folks commoners and elites continued to think of themselves, to self-identify as we say now, as "Romans" even after their rulers were no longer 'Roman." Obviously by the fall of the Western Empire the idea of who is a "Roman" had greatly expanded from a person from the city of Rome. Language of course plays a part as well as law and customs that govern a person's daily life, and of course we cannot forget the Church.
Joe Balmos
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#7
Quote:Not an expert on that era, but I wonder how many folks commoners and elites continued to think of themselves, to self-identify as we say now, as "Romans" even after their rulers were no longer 'Roman."

There is a whole country that still does this - Romania.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#8
(04-25-2018, 01:11 AM)Dan Howard Wrote:
Quote:Not an expert on that era, but I wonder how many folks commoners and elites continued to think of themselves, to self-identify as we say now, as "Romans" even after their rulers were no longer 'Roman."

There is a whole country that still does this - Romania.

Ah yes, very interesting point Dan. As an "American" talking to an "Australian" I wonder if the use of the term "Romanian" is also a modern construct? I should know as my heritage is partly Transylvanian Saxon, enemies of the "Romanians," but the Balkans are a very confusing place culturally, linguistically and genetically. I'd like to visit Macedonia this year yet fear their visa stamp on my passport would bar me from Greece!
Joe Balmos
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#9
Yes the so-called "Byzantine" empire was just the Roman empire, and they continued to identify as Romans (to be a "Greek" or "Hellene" at that time was to be a Pagan, until the beginning of a Greek ethnogenesis after the events of 1204-1261).

Technically it really wasn't even a Greek empire considering much of inland Greece was only arbitrarily under Roman control until the late 10th century AD. It was by and large an Anatolian empire, really.
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