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Aquincum / Budapest III spatha.
#1
So here is the thing. Does anyone own any sources about this Spatha?

[Image: 19512552_1934618673425121_315800755_n.jp...e=595569DE]

There was a topic with great reconstruction here:

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/thread-21085.html

All I've found in the Internet was this topic and quite long 85p. article in german about finds from a grave (alongside with the sword) but that's it.
As for my german, I do not understand a single word and I'm kinda helpless to find on those 85 pages, the ones that refer to this spatha.

So here is a question.

Does anyone have anything about this sword in english? Some description? Dimensions etc etc?
Damian
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#2
I looked but haven't been able to find it. There's actually a similar Spatha in one of Miks recent works.
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#3
the sword is discussed at length in a paper by Margit Nagy available in Academia.edu.
Also Matt Bunker has some photos of the actual piece in his Budapest sub directory. search it as "medicusmatt photobucket" .
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#4
https://independent.academia.edu/MargitNagy
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#5
(07-15-2017, 12:43 AM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: https://independent.academia.edu/MargitNagy

I have this one but like I said, 85 pages in german. I was able to pick from it just a few dimensions but that's all. Nothing to understand about materials, construction etc etc etc
Damian
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#6
If i remember correctly the hilt was 14 cm long. You can guess all the other measures through this. But sadly tje blade is fragmented so we dont know its lenght. There is also a file with pictures ( bad ones) innthere. You can also use matt photos as a guide. I did mine slightly longer in the hilt and the decorative "menuki" with a.coupe of beads less. It's all silver , sir
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#7
(07-18-2017, 04:16 PM)leonardo Wrote: If i remember correctly the hilt was 14 cm long. You can guess all the other measures through this. But sadly tje blade is fragmented so we dont know its lenght. There is also a file with pictures ( bad ones) innthere. You can also use matt photos as a guide. I did mine slightly longer in the hilt and the decorative "menuki" with a.coupe of beads less.  It's all silver , sir

Like I said, I was able to acquire all dimensions, except one 3cm, which stands next to the hilt lenght. My only clue is this is thicnkess of the handle?

As for the lenght it is also there, around 95cm total, which leaves around 81cm for the blade itself with 4,7cm widht at base and 3cm at the tip.
Damian
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#8
I largely suspect this Spatha has a straight, diamond shaped Sassanian-style blade.

Were those belt fittings found with the original in that reconstruction?
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#9
(07-18-2017, 08:09 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: I largely suspect this Spatha has a straight, diamond shaped Sassanian-style blade.

Were those belt fittings found with the original in that reconstruction?

Something was found... But I'm unable to read about this from obvious reason...


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
           
Damian
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#10
Interesting mix. The brooch and medallion suggest early 4th century, but the coin clearly dates it to the mid 4th century.

The stiffeners and buckles suggest probably a swordbelt, and are in the Pontic-Danubian style. They look related to the types typically found in the Pontic region with flat, rectangular stiffeners.

The propellor stiffeners go with the belt buckle, and the buckle probably had an integrated stiffener before that broke off. I also suspect that two belts were buried with the sword, based on the presence of two buckles, but it could also be that an additional buckle plate was buried and not a whole belt, or two incomplete belts could have been deposited. It's difficult to ascertain.

Is there a layout of how the items were found?
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#11
Yes. But since the discovering was back in 1943 there are several doubts. The baldric is discussed with pictures in the original post along with a recpnsgruction that seems similar to the proposed more recently ( the solution proposed in the paper is not very probable). Also i have recpnstructed the belt. I dont remember if I posted pictures

The blade i so much corroded that is little what can be said. So i used a lenticular design 46 mm wide at the base 32 mm at the point. 81 cm lenght. All the sword weighted less than a kilo. There is a mistake in one of the drawings i think
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#12
Why do you think it was diamond-shaped?

@leonardo - could you clarify for me what you have wrote? I mean, with such dimensios, a sword would weight mover 1 kilo? Is this what you mean?


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Damian
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#13
I tried to say that my reproduction of the sword weighted something less than a kilogram. Even when the hilt is longer and the silver fittings of my reproduction are much thicker than the original ones
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#14
Sorry, I meant lenticular.

Yes, most swords should weigh less than a kilogram.
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#15
So... I'm reading this paper (I can't read most of it but I can make some words out) and looking at the finds and these are the conclusions I can draw about the Budapest II/Budapest III burials:

1. The stiffeners for the baldric are of a typology related to the Pontic-Danubian Stiffeners, but of their own distinct Roman or West Germanic variation. Based on the number and arrangement of the fittings as well, it was probably a swordbelt, not a baldric.

2. The Budapest III had fragments of a Hun cauldron, some bits from horse tack, and fragments from a Qum-Darya Type Bow, indicating this man was a Steppe nomad. There are literary sources describing the settlement of "Huns" in Pannonia around 380 AD by the Romans, although they probably were not part of the actual Hun polity. I would suggest he is associated with these foederati.

3. The belt is most closely related to Late 4th Century Parallel line propellor stiffener belts, while the little suspension loops adorning the bottom are a Roman variation on a style widespread from the Rhine to the Caspian (probably of Roman origin).

4. The Handle falls under a typology most similar to that of the Leopoldau, Tsibilium-43, and Iatrus Spathae. However, it is decorated in a distinct Roman style similar to the Gundremmingen-Type Chape such as those from Hirsova and Zalaszentgrot (And the Budapest Scabbard has a Gundremmingen-type Chape as well).

5. The Brooch is Type 3/4 which dates to the mid-late 4th century.

Therefore, my conclusion is that this man was a heavily Romanized "Hun" (an Alpilcur or Tongur, specifically), or possibly an Alan.
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