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Help With Realistic Late Roman Clothing for Starting Out?
#16
(06-30-2017, 02:22 PM)Longovicium Wrote: the caption read: the arrow-like object is probably not a weapon but a symbol of rank. That's it.

[Image: smile.png]

I've seen this book, and it is very weird. There's one picture of a signifer, I think, with some sort of floppy pink sausage thing draped over the top of his standard. Very unfortunate! I'd like to think it's a reference to the 'sausages' incident in Procopius, but I suspect it was just the illustrator getting confused...

As for late Roman 'soft kit', there are plenty of excellent groups reconstructing it - have a look for Vicus Ultimus, who do a good 'late frontier troops' impression. Besides Fectio and The Barcarii, of course!
Nathan Ross
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#17
If you're in LA you'll want to talk to Brandon Barnes of Legio VI Victrix, he's currently working on getting a Late Roman detachment together. He has two members, I think, and there's two guys with Legio X Fretensis in the Bay area who are slowly putting together some Late Roman kits.

Baldenheims were invented by the Romans around 450-470 AD, and we start seeing them as imperial gifts to Barbarians around 470-480. So the Romans must have had spangenhelmets earlier, and the arch of Galerius suggests they did. I would say the Spangenhelmet began use in the Roman army around 300 AD but didn't become widespread until after Attila's devastation of the Balkans and the sudden need to completely rebuild over half of the Eastern Roman Army.

Ridge helmets are fine, but several of the Deepeeka ones kind of suck. If you want advice on what to get you can always post here before you purchase.

I'd strongly recommend having a shield made custom, Comitatus can do them, so can Res Bellica, Frabrica Cacti, or several other makers of custom equipment.

If you want to portray a soldier of the Era of Justinian you'll want to talk to Philotas de Toxandrie or Mattia Caprioli (on Facebook). I can help you as well, feel free to send me a friend request (Evan Schultheis) and I can add you to the NA late Roman Reenactors group.
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#18
Once again, thanks for your advice. I'm still considering specific eras, and eventually, I'll have to narrow it down, and stylistic choices could help.

While I do have much appreciation for earlier time periods as well, I really like much of anything 5th century (especially the later times of Aetius and Attila through Nepos/Syagrius/Odoacer, and the legendary Arthurian period of southern Britannia, which could be early 6th century), the 3rd Century Crisis has also witnessed very interesting changes in political and military circumstances (especially in Diocletian's reign, and Roman officer Lucius Artorius Castus, most likely misinterpreted to be the source of the King Arthur legends, could possibly have been alive during earlier decades of the century, although also the last century, a fascinating figure in his own right), and the reign of Constantine the Great in the earlier 4th century. As I've implied, I'm very interested in Sub-Roman Britain and the historicity of the Arthurian legends, and I often play a modification for Mount & Blade: Warband, called Brytenwalda, set a bit after those times near the mid-6th century, yet similar looking.

Right now, I'm looking at footwear. The site below makes it seem as though these options are accurate to the 3rd through 4th centuries AD, especially with Northern/Western Europe in mind, but what do you think? I like the closed boot/shoe styles, but I also like the apparently much more commonly worn carbatinae. For some reason, I am not accustomed to the look of the campagi shoes. These all seem to lack hobnails (you need to buy them separately), which I appreciate, as I would like to hold off on that. The last ones appear to resemble typical Roman and Germanic carbatinae styles I've seen on other sites and historical depictions, but the name is not used there, and it is claimed that the design (with more or less very similar variations in appearances) was used throughout much of the Iron Age through Early Middle Ages.

https://www.celticwebmerchant.com/en/aux...ry-ad.html

https://www.celticwebmerchant.com/en/rom...ry-ad.html

https://www.celticwebmerchant.com/en/lea...ndals.html

https://www.celticwebmerchant.com/en/iro...ndels.html

A couple of Armamentaria options are these:

https://www.armamentaria.com/store/index...pevns7alc3

https://www.armamentaria.com/store/index...pevns7alc3

It would be interesting to know what more casual sandals (soleae) would have looked like, as well as where they are sold.


I've also been looking at tunic options, and these choices are appealing to me, as well as being quite typical looking designs:

https://www.celticwebmerchant.com/en/tun...offer.html

https://www.celticwebmerchant.com/en/tun...a-red.html

For wearing a tunic, is a simple rope tied in a knot considered to have been acceptable, with the lack of a leather belt? Perhaps looked down upon or excessively casual, yet fine for a craftsman, farmer, or other laborer?


I found made-to-measure options below, and the price points are higher than I could justify, but they look nice. There is a more expensive tunic with more designs, in the second link:

http://www.lawrensnest.com/ez-catalog/X385623/16/RR2016

http://www.lawrensnest.com/ez-catalog/X385623/16/RR2017


Regarding scarves, I should add that I already own a reproduction off-white wool focale (It's short, so I wrap it around the neck instead of tying it like a cravat), as well as a modern off-white silk scarf that I could tie like one. I've seen pictures of reenactors wearing these garments hanging down the torso, or hidden beneath the tunic's collar, often especially in the context of wearing armor, but without as well.
IN HOC SIGNO VINCES
Jason
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#19
Armamentaria is going out of business.

For 5th Century what you want are called Campagi, which were by far the most common footwear of the 5th century army. We find them all the time in military deposits such as Arras and Aquileia and also Germanic burials like Kemathen.

Of the links you posted, none of those shoes are acceptable for late Roman, and those tunics are basically cheap crap.

La Wren's nest stuff is slightly, only slightly better but no, those are not anywhere near as good as the stuff you should be saving up to buy. Again, medievaldesign.com.

You're gonna be spending a lot of money on this if you want to do it right. Especially 5th century, the brooch alone will cost you probably 200 dollars. Belt fittings are easily 100 + cost of leather to make it yourself. Shoes will run you 200, Trousers 150, Tunic 250, Shield... depends on who you get it from. Helmet will probably run you 200 for a cheap deepeeka one. Sword is 200 for the Deepeeka feltwell, or at least 800 for custom. Armor will run you 300-700 USD depending on what you get and who from. A spear, if you can find a proper ash shaft, will run you probably 150.
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#20
(07-11-2017, 01:23 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: Armamentaria is going out of business.

For 5th Century what you want are called Campagi, which were by far the most common footwear of the 5th century army. We find them all the time in military deposits such as Arras and Aquileia and also Germanic burials like Kemathen.

Of the links you posted, none of those shoes are acceptable for late Roman, and those tunics are basically cheap crap.

La Wren's nest stuff is slightly, only slightly better but no, those are not anywhere near as good as the stuff you should be saving up to buy. Again, medievaldesign.com.

You're gonna be spending a lot of money on this if you want to do it right. Especially 5th century, the brooch alone will cost you probably 200 dollars. Belt fittings are easily 100 + cost of leather to make it yourself. Shoes will run you 200, Trousers 150, Tunic 250, Shield... depends on who you get it from. Helmet will probably run you 200 for a cheap deepeeka one. Sword is 200 for the Deepeeka feltwell, or at least 800 for custom. Armor will run you 300-700 USD depending on what you get and who from. A spear, if you can find a proper ash shaft, will run you probably 150.

Thanks.

At first, I was thrown off by the bright red leather on that site, but after checking again, I think campagi in brown or natural is what I would like to start off with. I would also be interested in knowing what soleae/sandalia were like in the 5th century, because I've only seen references to really early examples.

I am curious about the leg-wrappings of that era, though, as a lot of them look similar to modern equivalents, puttees and gaiters. The Medieval Design leg wrappings are listed as 2nd through 3rd centuries, but where would be good places to get later versions?
IN HOC SIGNO VINCES
Jason
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#21
Ramshaw-Type Calcei are also acceptable, as they were in use from the 4th-7th centuries (a pair from the late 6th/early 7th century was found at Achmim-Panopolis).

Well Leg Wraps weren't as common as people like to believe, but yes both puttees/gaiters (Fascia Crurales) and Leg Wraps like the ones from Sogaardes-Mose (Lorum Fasciari) were in use.

So were Soleae... they were pretty much the same. Just quality off-duty shoes. Some variations of Caligae were still in use too, but not the 1st century style.
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