Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
New Start, looking for information and advice.
#1
Greetings all!

Finally got round to signing up and joining in with the community instead of lurking in the shadows. I’ve done a lot of searching around the forums looking for people’s opinions on manufacturers that would be suitable for what I want to do already, but I thought I would post to get your opinions.


Background
Basically, I have been involved in Airsoft for a good many years now and my local site has decided to delve into the realms of ancient/medieval style warfare with LARP weapons. Unlike LARP, the idea here is realism and combat focus with some areas for reenactment between games.
A group of us have opted to go down the Roman route as we love the history of the Roman Empire and would love to portray that in an accurate way (as far as running around dressed as a Roman with a LARP sword goes).

Outline
While our weapons will be LARP based, we want our equipment to be reasonably accurate as far as finance goes. I can’t see us being reenactors any time soon but it has been discussed, so we want to make a really good effort here. The timeline we’re looking at is around 40-120 AD or later.
I have compiled the following list below of items I have done some research on. Below that I have also listed some items I would love to hear your opinions on. I’ve even numbered them for easy reference!


1.0 - Armour

1.1 - Segmentata Armour (Deepeeka) - £135

Deepeeka seems to be the go to armour for many, and for the price it seems very reasonable. I’ve been in touch with them recently about “larger” sets of Segmentata because I’m a good bit larger than the average person and they seem very happy to accommodate.

http://www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/l...-2689.html


1.2 - Imperial Gallic Helmet (Deepeeka) - £70

Again, Deepeeka seems like a good choice, but I’m always open to other ideas.

http://www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/r...-2861.html


1.3 - Gallic H Centurion Helmet (Deepeeka) - £125

Helmet for our Centurion to be.

http://www.theknightshop.co.uk/catalog/g...-3349.html


2.0 - Clothing

2.1 - Quilted Subarmalis (Armamentaria) - £85

Subarmalis, from what I can gather, is very open ended

https://www.armamentaria.com/store/index...cts_id=539


2.2 - Roman Socks Udones Nalbinding (Unknown) - £22

I live in Scotland... it gets cold.

http://reenactmentmarket.com/index.php?i...&id_lang=1


3.0 - LARP Section

Ok, this section is a little less interesting for some of you. Sadly we can’t use some of the gorgeous metal weaponry I’ve seen here.


3.1 - Shield (Forgotten Dreams) - £188 (ouch!)

Very expensive in comparison to a lot of other types, but it looks pretty good for a LARP design.

http://www.larpinn.co.uk/deluxe-roman-to...p-754.html


3.2 - Gladius (Forgotten Dreams) - £55

Still no idea where I will find a Scabbard for this.

http://www.larpinn.co.uk/roman-gladius-s...p-922.html

Alternatively - http://www.darkknightarmoury.com/p-4075-...sword.aspx


4.0 - Additional Items

I would love to hear your opinions about or to provide me with alternatives.

4.1 - Caligaes

You will need to scroll down the page here to the Adult Kit. I think they look alright for the price. Really struggling to find a decent set, especially with size 11.5UK.

http://www.romansandals.co.uk/acatalog/R...ndals.html


4.2 - Red Tunic

With regards to the Tunic, I’m at a total loss. I see posts about which ones to avoid, but none that really gives me an idea of what to go for. I understand there is variations in design, some with sleeves, and some without. The ideal one for us, if it’s a real design, would be short sleeved.


4.3 - Belt

Again, I would appreciate your help in finding suitable belts here. I see a lot of cool designs, but I’m at a loss on the realism.


Any help you could provide would be much appreciated. I have set an estimated budget of around £700 per person. Obviously cheaper is better and with 6 of us as it stands, I’m hoping to see if companies would provide group discounts.

The one thing I learned from my Airsofting days is the philosophy of buy cheap, buy twice. While we do have a budget we’re trying to work to, I would rather spend an extra £20 or £50 for an item that would last better.

Thank you very much for reading. I look forward to hearing from you. :-)

Regards

Steve
Reply
#2
For the scutum: make it yourself. It will be easy and fun to do and a lot cheaper. Furthermore, you can select a much better umbo Smile
For the belt: make them yourself. Better quality leather AND better fit. The new series of deepeeka belts are looking nice though. I recommend loose beltplates from hr-replikate.de, armamentaria.com and replik-shop.de

Tunics: red is fine. You can opt between sleeve-less and short-sleved, as you happen to have chosen the period where this get changed...
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
Reply
#3
Quote:For the scutum: make it yourself. It will be easy and fun to do and a lot cheaper. Furthermore, you can select a much better umbo Smile
For the belt: make them yourself. Better quality leather AND better fit. The new series of deepeeka belts are looking nice though. I recommend loose beltplates from hr-replikate.de, armamentaria.com and replik-shop.de

Tunics: red is fine. You can opt between sleeve-less and short-sleved, as you happen to have chosen the period where this get changed...

Hi Jvrjenivs,

Thanks for the feedback. With regards to the Tunic, any recommendations as to where I would best get one from?
Reply
#4
For an idea of what your tunic should look like, have a search of the forum. I put up a thread in the beginners' section a few years ago which was intended to address this very thing.
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/55-beginner...tunic.html

As to making your own shield, a curved scutum might not be the best beginner's project, but a flat clipieus type shield would be far easier to make and would be just as Roman. You should find some good advice in this thread:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/20-roman-re...tml#234480

If you are used to running around and LARPing, then portraying a group of auxiliary soldiers would be ideal for you. If so, though, you might want to go easy on the segmentata and go instead for mail or scale. If you are in Scotland, it would be truer to the Roman soldiers who actually served in (the lowlands of) your part of the world, as well.

As one last thing, this thread should really be in the 'Re-enactment and Reconstruction' forum. The 'Beginners' Section' is really supposed to be a sort of FAQ area with helpful answers to the questions that beginners often ask.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
Reply
#5
Quote:For an idea of what your tunic should look like, have a search of the forum. I put up a thread in the beginners' section a few years ago which was intended to address this very thing.
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/55-beginner...tunic.html

As to making your own shield, a curved scutum might not be the best beginner's project, but a flat clipieus type shield would be far easier to make and would be just as Roman. You should find some good advice in this thread:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/20-roman-re...tml#234480

If you are used to running around and LARPing, then portraying a group of auxiliary soldiers would be ideal for you. If so, though, you might want to go easy on the segmentata and go instead for mail or scale. If you are in Scotland, it would be truer to the Roman soldiers who actually served in (the lowlands of) your part of the world, as well.

As one last thing, this thread should really be in the 'Re-enactment and Reconstruction' forum. The 'Beginners' Section' is really supposed to be a sort of FAQ area with helpful answers to the questions that beginners often ask.

Crispvs

Thanks for that Crispvs.

The beginners guide is very handy. Looking into various websites to find a good one for our unit.

We're also looking into shield options just now to see what happens. Most of the guys want to go for Segmentata armour and a couple might for for the mail to mix it up a bit.
Reply
#6
Hello, and welcome to the hobby!

I have some suggestions to give you.

Armour
Lorica segmentata you linked is okay, but Romans also used other types of armour in that period of yours. Like mail armour (called inaccurately "chain mail" by many), lorica hamata:
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...amata.html
And scale armour, lorica squamata. But these too are nowadays more expensive to buy.

Helmet
The first helmet you linked is the infamous "Roman trooper helmet", avoid that like a plague!!! It is by far the most hated helmet on the market, for several reasons. It is of bad quality, it has numerous flaws, it is totally non historically accurate, and doesn't even fit on most people's heads.

Please buy some of these instead, I give you several examples of better helmets made by Deepeeka, so they are relatively cheap (a few more expensive though), but much more authentic and accurate. There were many different helmet types used by the Romans in the period you describe, and older helmets were frequently passed down from father to son, since they lasted more than a lifetime. So an older helmet is not an anachronism, but a later obviously is.

Imperial Gallic types were developed a bit earlier than Imperial Italic types, at least the first examples of them, but both developed into many different forms during time.

Imperial Gallic A
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-a.html

Imperial Gallic B
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-b.html

Imperial Gallic C
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...c-new.html

Imperial Gallic F
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...ancon.html (Besancon type)
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...sisak.html (Sisak type)

Imperial Gallic G
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-g.html (the most popular helmet among re-enactors)
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...worms.html (Worms type)

Imperial Gallic H
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-h.html

Imperial Gallic T
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...mainz.html

Aquincum helmet
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...s-new.html

Gallic G with transverse crest (helmet for Centurion)
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...urion.html

Imperial Italic types

Imperial Italic B:
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-b.html

Imperial Italic C
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-c.html

Imperial Italic D
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-d.html

Imperial Italic G
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...lic-g.html

Krefeld helmet
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...elmet.html

Niedermörmter helmets
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...rmter.html
http://deepeeka.in/products-catalog/armo...s-new.html

There were just one Centurion helmet option, which is accurate, but a separate crests can be bought from many sites. The ones with wooden crest boxes (the thing from where the horse hair or feathers spring out) are usually better than the metallic ones. It's also easy to make yourself. Take a piece of wood and saw it to the arced shape, drill some holes on the upper side and glue some feathers on. Feathers were as used or maybe even more used than horsehair for crests in Imperial period.


Shield
As others have states before, it is possible to make a shield by yourself, which is more authentic and cheaper or course. The one you linked is quite frankly horrible, maybe it's partly due because of the paintjob, why is it that the larp latex things have to be painted with deep shadows in every edge? It is not realistic looking, just "toyish".


Sword
The first sword you linked looks horrible and nothing like a Roman gladius. The latter is better, but even better would be some which would have staright edged blade, since that leaf shaped blade model (Mainz type, which the latter sword poorly represents) was quite old in the time period of your choosing and probably not in use anymore. The newer Pompeii type gladius would be better (the one with straight edged blade). The guard and pommel should also be made of wood and not metal (imitation metal in this case) and the grip from horn, but they can be painted brown and off-white respectively, when we're talking about a latex sword.

Sandals
Those are not very accurate at all, so I'll find some better for you:
http://deepeeka.in/roman-caligae.html

Tunic
Tunics are the easiest to make yourself. Just a large rectangular piece of wool or linen is needed. Avoid cotton, since it wasn't used back then. Fold it half, sew the sides together but leave some room for hands and make a hole for the head. That's it. Roman tunics usually didn't have sleeves, but they were so wide that they looked like having sleeves when worn with a belt. The tunic fabric should go from elbow to elbow when you hold your hands straight to left and right. It should reach a bit below your knee but it is worn with a belt to gather the fabric a bit, so the lower hem is above the knee. Red, white, off-white, brown, yellow, green and blue would all be good colours to choose from. Red is the most (over)used by re-enactors for obvious reasons: everyone associates that colour (and only that colous) with Romans. Do not use black (the colour of grief, sorrow and ill omens) or purple (the colour of emperors and nobility).

Belt
Belt can be made by yourself, instructions might be found on this forum or elsewhere on the internet.

Subarmalis
The subarmalis you listed is good, go for it.

Neck scarf
Neck scarf, focale in Latin is something else you also need. It is a long and narrow piece of wool (like modern neck scarfs used in winter) worn around neck, and partially under armour to prevent the armour from chafing your neck. It is authentic and important, otherwise your neck will start to hurt at some point from the plates of the armour. This is also easy to make yourself from a piece of wool. If you have red tunics, for example blue focales could look strikingly cool.

* * *

All links I listed are for Deepeeka products, but I picked them since they are not the most expensive in the market, and relatively accurate (but Deepeeka has many many horribly inaccurate things for sale also, so be aware of them). Better things can be found, but they are generally more expensive.

Here's also a useful (though not very pretty looking) webpage for where to buy things:
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/supplrs.html

And a list of things to avoid:
http://www.larp.com/legioxx/bad.html

P.S.
It would also be good not to have everyone wearing all the same equipment, since armamanet wasn't that standardised back in the Roman times, and uniforms as we have now, didn't exist. Every soldier had an armour, helmet, tunic, shield, sandals etc. but the types may have varied a lot. Maybe different helmet types for a few people would be good. And different coloured subarmales etc.
Antonius Insulae (Sakari)
Reply
#7
Great! Get your Roman outfits together... but who plays the enemy? And how accurate should they be? Cool
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#8
Thanks for the advice! Very helpful!

Armour
So far we have 6 members, and we're leaving it up to them which armour set they want. All have chosen the Segmentata so far, but hopefully others will choose Hamata.


Helmet
So that's the "Roman Trooper" one. I shall most certainly avoid that one then! I shall check out all the helmets and see which ones suit us better.


Shield
I'm going to email the manufacturer to see if they can sell them pre-painted and treated so we can do our own designs on them.


Sword
Swords are limited LARP wise. These could maybe work?

https://www.dein-larp-shop.de/ancient-ro...ore=dls_de


Sandals
http://deepeeka.in/roman-caligae.html

Those look quite good actually!

Tunic
We're going to use Red and Blue Tunics as "Team" Colours.

The Red Tunic I was thinking was: http://www.lawrensnest.com/ez-catalog/X385623/16/RR2013

Is the deepeeka Tunic any good?


Belt
Belt can be made by yourself, instructions might be found on this forum or elsewhere on the internet.

This seems to be the recommendation until deepeeka finish the newer versions.

Subarmalis
The subarmalis you listed is good, go for it.

Perfect! They also do a Tunic that we might go for instead of the La Wrens Nest.

Neck scarf
Focale - Check! Sounds like a good idea to me.
Reply
#9
Quote:Great! Get your Roman outfits together... but who plays the enemy? And how accurate should they be? Cool

There's another 15 or so who will be playing other Armies like Barbarians. While our army will be Re-enactment based Romans, other LARP players will be doing a mix or Historic/Fantasy (Not Faeries and Magic though!)

The "Game" is Live Action Warfare so it's realistic combat focused. So we will be training to work like the Legions.
Reply
#10
Those Deepika caligae are terrible! Try the DSC ones:
http://www.history-revisited.com/detail/...cial-price
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"

Antony
Reply
#11
Quote:Those Deepika caligae are terrible! Try the DSC ones:
http://www.history-revisited.com/detail/...cial-price

Ooft, would not like to take a kick from those!

Was having a look at the Brown coloured ones as the ones linked only have size 38 according to the discription. Me being size 11.5 means I would need the other ones.
Reply
#12
You could order directly from DSC

[email protected]
"The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones"

Antony
Reply
#13
DSC are a good bunch, in my dealing with them I have had no reason to complain, unlike other Idian producers/vendors.

But Steven, if you are training to fight like Roman miles, please do realise that your opponents should lose 9 out of 10. The main problem with this sort of mock combat is that there are often too few miles to truely get the Roman fighting system to work. Normaly, opponents could not just run around the formation and engage in a melee. During a melee, many advantages of the fighting system are lessened to a great extent. To adjust for this, have the sides of the line fold back and fight in a circle, back to back. Great way of piling up dead bodies in front of you! Also, it requires good rules of engagement. A stab to an unprotected torso is lethal, to a limb, crippling. But with needlefelt or the like, a stab is hardly felt or counted as a hit by the opponent.
Salvete et Valete

Nil volentibus arduum


Robert P. Wimmers
Archeologie Beleven!
>http://www.ferrumantica.eu  (The NEW Fabrica of Vvlpivs!)
Reply
#14
Good evening everyone,

I am interested in either joining or starting a reenactment group in the greater New York area. I am totally new to reenactment of any kind at all, however, I do have degrees in history and classics, I am moderately proficient in Latin, and have 4+ years in the US Army (if those things matter at all, just establishing some credentials if it helps me find a group). I guess in short, before I potentially spend a lot of money on a kit that may not pass muster against the average reenactor, I just wanted to verify that people agree with Antonius Insulae.

Firstly, let me say I am interested in portraying a legionary from approximately the mid 1st Century CE, more specifically I'd like to use segmentata. What I am gathering is that deepeeka is a reputable source seemingly to buy just about everything. I would still like a specific example of a scutum and a gladius that people agree are both good. I am considering the Gallic G from deepeeka if people agree those are time appropriate and if this particular one is of good quality (the very one that Antonius linked saying it was most popular). A follow-up question about the helmet, as I have never even held a replica Roman helmet, does that particular helmet have the capability of mounting the crest both transversely and longitudinally?

Secondly, I have no interested in making anything. I appreciate I could save money, and maybe it could be fun, but if I am to be totally honest, I am not very handy. So again, I would definitely like a definitive scutum link if anyone could help me. I do not want to make a tunic, so if anyone can help me with that, and maybe also a belt, and an appropriate baldric for the gladius. I would also like to purchase a pilum. I have seen some of these items on lawrensnest, I was wondering if these items are acceptable, or if I should look elsewhere.

I know I am coming into this pretty ignorant, but in short, I would like to go online, and buy a good quality kit to accurately portray a mid-1st Century CE legionary. Cost isn't necessarily a serious consideration of mine, as long as the difference is cost is justified by the quality of the item.

Thank you so much, in advance, for your time.
Reply
#15
(02-05-2016, 12:52 AM)G. Acilius Draco Wrote: Good evening everyone,

I am interested in either joining or starting a reenactment group in the greater New York area. I am totally new to reenactment of any kind at all, however, I do have degrees in history and classics, I am moderately proficient in Latin, and have 4+ years in the US Army (if those things matter at all, just establishing some credentials if it helps me find a group). I guess in short, before I potentially spend a lot of money on a kit that may not pass muster against the average reenactor, I just wanted to verify that people agree with Antonius Insulae.

Firstly, let me say I am interested in portraying a legionary from approximately the mid 1st Century CE, more specifically I'd like to use segmentata.  What I am gathering is that deepeeka is a reputable source seemingly to buy just about everything. I would still like a specific example of a scutum and a gladius that people agree are both good. I am considering the Gallic G from deepeeka if people agree those are time appropriate and if this particular one is of good quality (the very one that Antonius linked saying it was most popular). A follow-up question about the helmet, as I have never even held a replica Roman helmet, does that particular helmet have the capability of mounting the crest both transversely and longitudinally?

Secondly, I have no interested in making anything. I appreciate I could save money, and maybe it could be fun, but if I am to be totally honest, I am not very handy. So again, I would definitely like a definitive scutum link if anyone could help me. I do not want to make a tunic, so if anyone can help me with that, and maybe also a belt, and an appropriate baldric for the gladius. I would also like to purchase a pilum. I have seen some of these items on lawrensnest, I was wondering if these items are acceptable, or if I should look elsewhere.

I know I am coming into this pretty ignorant, but in short, I would like to go online, and buy a good quality kit to accurately portray a mid-1st Century CE legionary. Cost isn't necessarily a serious consideration of mine, as long as the difference is cost is justified by the quality of the item.

Thank you so much, in advance, for your time.

What is you current budget? And are you under pressure of getting everything at once?
Damian
Reply


Forum Jump: