Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Roman Shoes by Crispianus
#16
(05-17-2016, 12:54 PM)Gunthamund Hasding Wrote: Kudos again, I wish I had time to do such things

Thanks....

This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.

J.R.R. Tolkien
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#17
Some new shoes hot of the press:

Melrose Type Carbatina based on a find from Vindolanda, likely Hadrianic/Antonine.
This one was made without a pattern and basically by shaping a piece of leather round a suitable last, marking out with a thumbnail and cutting in an appropriate fashion.

   

Melrose Type Calcei from Housteads Hadrianic/Antonine. 

         

Flavian Boot from the Cancelleria relief similar to Castleford.
The stitched toe could be laced instead forming continuous lacing too the ankle with the tabs/latchets going almost to the toe.

   

Two fellboots Vindolanda 90s AD.

   

   
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#18
Beautiful!
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#19
(07-01-2016, 08:40 PM)Robert Vermaat Wrote: Beautiful!

Thanks Robert Wink


A new pair of shoes from Asjut in Egypt loosely southfleet in style, the originals are in the Leather Museum at Offenbach..
Goat skin uppers dyed red on the outside only, cowhide sole, size originals and replicas 24cm long approx 35-36EU.
Turnshoe construction so probably what the Romans would have refered to as "Socci".
Dating 400?-700ad?.


   

Publication Deutches Ledermuseum/Schuhmuseum Katalog heft 6 (6.71.45)
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#20
Quote:Turnshoe construction so probably what the Romans would have refered to as "Socci".

Is this the "shoes built without a last"?

Also you'd be executed for wearing those. Tongue
Reply
#21
(01-29-2017, 12:00 AM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote:
Quote:Turnshoe construction so probably what the Romans would have refered to as "Socci".

Is this the "shoes built without a last"?

Also you'd be executed for wearing those. Tongue

Multipart shoes are generally made on lasts.. and these are no exception....

Not sure why you'd be executed(some obscure law no doubt?) for wearing turn shoes there are several early examples eg commanchio ship wreck... although its likely that many were worn with overshoes of one kind or another includimg apparantly Caliga... these however are later and relatively common at least in the construction..... Wink
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#22
Red shoes were illegal, although it was a law often broken. Only the Emperor was allowed to wear read boots (most likely Campagi)

Some of those shoes you posted earlier look a lot like the boots we see on mosaics like the Argos Museum Mosaic, by the way.
Reply
#23
Ah I see, I knew there were some laws for colors of shoes depending on your rank, but clearly people wore red shoes despite that so perhaps its a particular type of red and not red per se...
Which ones are you talking about in particular? the problem with names is we dont realy know what the people were talking about and in most cases can only guess which shoes are associated with which named type....
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#24
(01-29-2017, 01:38 AM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: Red shoes were illegal, although it was a law often broken. Only the Emperor was allowed to wear read boots (most likely Campagi)

Interesting - can you share what source are you referring to, please?
Reply
#25
It's a Late Roman source, mentioned (somewhere, I don't know where) in the Theodosian code, and the Justinianic code, but specifically by Lydus in his De Mag. 2.4. Such shoes were called Tzaggia. It's clear he means Tyrian purple but decorated red-purple boots sort of spanned a range of colors, so it's likely it was technically illegal for the range of color but also technically a law widely broken since they weren't necessarily dyed with Tyrian Purple.

I was referring to the Alledale Calcei, they look kind of like the Cothurni on the Argos Museum mosaic.
Reply
#26
(02-04-2017, 03:50 PM)Flavivs Aetivs Wrote: It's a Late Roman source, mentioned (somewhere, I don't know where) in the Theodosian code, and the Justinianic code, but specifically by Lydus in his De Mag. 2.4. Such shoes were called Tzaggia. It's clear he means Tyrian purple but decorated red-purple boots sort of spanned a range of colors, so it's likely it was technically illegal for the range of color but also technically a law widely broken since they weren't necessarily dyed with Tyrian Purple.

I was referring to the Alledale Calcei, they look kind of like the Cothurni on the Argos Museum mosaic.

Tyrian purple, I thought that for clothing generally? purple has been found on the southfleet shoes and its a very good purple too...... clearly from a wealthy person though...

this may interest it includes various reds/purples :  http://www.che.uc.edu/jensen/W.%20B.%20J...Papyri.pdf

The Allendale Calcei dont appear in the archaeological record after the early 2nd century or so, I dont think I've ever seen them represented in the art record at all, though I think some earlier hellenistic shoes often copied on roman sculpture could possibly at a glance be mistaken for them.. perhaps that is the source of the mosaic shoes...
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#27
Quote:The Allendale Calcei dont appear in the archaeological record after the early 2nd century or so, I dont think I've ever seen them represented in the art record at all, though I think some earlier hellenistic shoes often copied on roman sculpture could possibly at a glance be mistaken for them.. perhaps that is the source of the mosaic shoes...

Maybe, there are some interesting shoes from the late Roman era that I don't know exactly how they were constructed. Take for example the Sandals of the Centurion in the Santa Maria's Slaughter of the Innocents Mosaic, or as I already mentioned the Cothurni in the Argos Museum Mosaic. Plenty of others too.
Reply
#28
"Maybe, there are some interesting shoes from the late Roman era that I don't know exactly how they were constructed. Take for example the Sandals of the Centurion in the Santa Maria's Slaughter of the Innocents Mosaic, or as I already mentioned the Cothurni in the Argos Museum Mosaic. Plenty of others too."

Not difficult based on existing shoes it depends on how complex you want to make it, for me they represent low cut shoes with straps either as part of the upper or seperate... for example take one of these and cut it lower add additional lace holes and long wide laces/straps and you have your mosaic shoe, though it is of course speculative and could be made by a number of ways to produce the the same look, whats important for this is the detail such as seams this will indicate a possible method and pattern for the parts... but this is exactly the detail mosaics lack....


   

This is the Hellinistic style I was talking about, there are a number of variations....... its a similar representation though much more detailed even down to the "socks"... The mosaic shoe and others could also be a simplified represention of Caliga there must have been plenty of representations about to base it on though again such footware has long since disapeared in the Arch record....

   

The mosaic: http://christianiconography.info/staMari...sPage.html
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply
#29
Well there are plenty that are easy to guess at, and yeah we do see some hellenizing with Toeless boots, but I'm talking about stuff like this:

Argos Museum:

[Image: yDZaAmX.jpg]

(Figure on the Left's Cothurni)

And another similar depiction:

[Image: vLfploA.jpg]

Or these kinds of sandals:

[Image: uk4in3h.jpg]

[Image: takuSzg.jpg]

And while I'm at it, some more interesting ones:

[Image: JZZrv8q.jpg]

[Image: Zj7cUQQ.jpg]
Reply
#30
For the shoes you call "Cothurni" there's a number of possibilitys and you could create something without too much difficulty that looked like them from a distance, including seperate horizontal straps, it could still comply with known details of various shoes , but would be speculation taken to another level and the peculiaritys could be explained away in a number ways such as contemporays styles hellenised or antigued.. such high designs would be very difficult to produce as Allendales as surviving examples are not that high, for a large foot 6-7 inches perhaps....

The sandals on the grape pickers theres nothing strange there all quite possible..

The lower pic is more interesting to some extent, the lacy things are rather a mess, though with the diagonal straps could be based on hellenistic originals, I do know of at least one messy  Roman shoe (which I would date tentatively as 2nd cent Ad on stylistic grounds) that has diagonal straps from Vindolanda so Roman shoe makers were not adverse to making such things.

   

The shoes on the right are probably of this type:
a fairly poor example but there is a few of these, laced across the ankle....
From Hawara tentatively 4th cent AD, previous noted in the Hellenistic shoes thread.
   

An example from the Walbrook London tentatively late 3rd cent AD, this time with double tabs, it may also have had a tongue. theres nothing to prevent the shoe maker from producing a knee length variation of this type.

   

As far as height is concerned I would estimate around 30cm or so (for the mosaics) based on the relative position of the calf muscle so their not as high as you might think, there are surviving boots from the the eastern provinces at least that would likely fall into this catagory, though they are fully enclosed dating from around the 3rd century AD... or possibly earlier...
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
Reply


Forum Jump: