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Complexion of the roman emperors
#16
Quote:our modern 'blonde' might be too narrow a definition.
Maybe 'fair-haired' would be suitably indeterminate.

EDIT It looks as if Macedon and I were posting simultaneously.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#17
http://marchofthetitans.com/earlson/romanemperors.htm
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#18
Quote:http://marchofthetitans.com/earlson/romanemperors.htm
I don't think Karl Earlson is a sound source...
aka T*O*N*G*A*R
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#19
I dont care about some Karl Earlson.I mainly posted it because of that table which clearly states Roman authors own remarqes about Imperial complexions.
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#20
I really can't add much in the Roman context, but it seems possible that our modern assumption that Romans were dark and swarthy might come from too many hours watching Sicilian gangster movies. Throughout the broad spectrum of antiquity, many nationalities were known to have blonde and red-headed individuals. From my eastern research, many Iranian-speaking cultures had their share of blondes-- all the way to China-- the Tarim Yue-chi, the Saka, the Wusun, were all described by Sima Quan and several eastern historians as being blonde, red haired, with either blue or green eyes. Then why not the Romans or Greeks? :whistle:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#21
A very recent Nature paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v52...14507.html

suggests that an Early Bronze Age culture from the Pontic Steppe the Yamnaya Culture may have been the ancestral Indo-Europeans. Interestingly the latest ancient DNA work seems to suggest that ancestral Europeans, especially in the Mesolithic, were dark-skinned with light eyes, the Yamnaya people in contrast, the above paper suggests, were light-skinned but dark-eyed. The later Europeans being the result of admixture, light skin becoming rapidly fixed in the population, but eye colour remaining more mixed (with a N-S cline) to the present day. The Yamnaya may also have been the originators of the European lactose-digestion persistence mutation, an obvious advantage to a pastoral cattle-herding people.

All in all a bit of a kick in the balls for the blond-blue-eyed-pale-skinned Aryan myth beloved of Hitler et alia., if, as the DNA evidence suggests, pale eyes and pale skin had entirely different origins, in different populations.
Martin

Fac me cocleario vomere!
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#22
So the "Nordic race" is mixed-race... neat.
Dan D'Silva

Far beyond the rising sun
I ride the winds of fate
Prepared to go where my heart belongs,
Back to the past again.

--  Gamma Ray

Well, I'm tough, rough, ready and I'm able
To pick myself up from under this table...

--  Thin Lizzy

Join the Horde! - http://xerxesmillion.blogspot.com/
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#23
That's it, Dan. Every so-called "race" is totally "impure"... just the way it is and ought to be. Confusedmile:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#24
Quote:A very recent Nature paper: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v52...14507.html

suggests that an Early Bronze Age culture from the Pontic Steppe the Yamnaya Culture may have been the ancestral Indo-Europeans. Interestingly the latest ancient DNA work seems to suggest that ancestral Europeans, especially in the Mesolithic, were dark-skinned with light eyes, the Yamnaya people in contrast, the above paper suggests, were light-skinned but dark-eyed. The later Europeans being the result of admixture, light skin becoming rapidly fixed in the population, but eye colour remaining more mixed (with a N-S cline) to the present day. The Yamnaya may also have been the originators of the European lactose-digestion persistence mutation, an obvious advantage to a pastoral cattle-herding people.

All in all a bit of a kick in the balls for the blond-blue-eyed-pale-skinned Aryan myth beloved of Hitler et alia., if, as the DNA evidence suggests, pale eyes and pale skin had entirely different origins, in different populations.
Cannot access the above paper without a subscription, so does it also cover this theory? Europeans drawn from three ancient 'tribes'
"Hunters and gatherers get vitamin D through their food - because animals have a lot of it. But once you're farming, you don't get a lot of it, and once you switch to agriculture, there's strong natural selection to lighten your skin so that when it's hit by sunlight you can synthesise vitamin D."
aka T*O*N*G*A*R
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#25
Let us not forget Septimus Severus. He would have been of dark complexion.
James Ajiduah
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#26
Quote:Let us not forget Septimus Severus. He would have been of dark complexion.

Possibly, but why 'would'?
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#27
Quote:
James Ajiduah post=370166 Wrote:Let us not forget Septimus Severus. He would have been of dark complexion.

Possibly, but why 'would'?
In this famous portrait of Severus and his family, he appears significantly darker-skinned than his wife and sons:

[attachment=12825]SeptimiusSeverusfamily.jpg[/attachment]


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Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
Reply


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