Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Participants wanted, first \'all late Roman\' Event
#16
Any ideas why roman infantry started fighting differently?<br>
<br>
I imagine that the change was not a sudden "black-white" switch but more a gradual change of emphasis that occured starting when vexillations became the norm (Marcus Aurelius) until Diocletian's reign. Small scale battles and flexible fighting in odd scenarios changed tactics away from large and complex formations and conseqently the role of the individual soldier changed too.<br>
<br>
I imagine the late roman infantry battle to not be similar to greek hoplitic battles, expected to be brief, but more similar to italic pre-manipular battles or germanic phalanxes but with the discipline and flexibility necessary to win a drawn out battle. In particular I imagine that sword exchanges were not last resort moments, like in greek hoplitic battles, but probably somewhat expected to occur sooner or later. If the enemy broke, fine. But if it didn't it was necessary to fight it out and the best way to make an enemy formation break was to carve a hole in it (good old sword play) or out maneuver it (cavalry).<br>
<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
Reply
#17
Dan,<br>
<br>
the dates of the 2004 Legions event in Italy are not fixed yet. As you know from the previous events, everything is almost always decided just few months before. I know well that it means more difficulties for the groups that would like to attend, but I hope that the big effort to organize such an event will be appreciated even if unconfortable about the groups planning, seen that the final result of the previous editions was worthy for any attendant. In the meanwhile, I must wait before announcing the dates.<br>
<br>
Dan, Aitor, Robert, Alain, Goffredo,<br>
<br>
as you know I'd like very much to see at my event you all as late roman soldiers, in the previous editions unfortunately we did not succeeded to do it. At the third edition it would be really great to compare in the presence of the public the differences of the early and late empire combat techniques (with a good number of soldiers): how many common people know right now that a difference exists? This could be a good chance to let them know.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius<br>
<p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini

... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...


Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
[Image: PRIMANI_ban2.gif]
Reply
#18
Goffredo,<br>
I'd be happy to answer you, but shall we make it a new thread so as to keep this one for the organisation of the spring event?<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#19
Dan,<br>
I agree with Aitor on the date issue. For us it's not a problem - we live close by and don't have a full schedule, but when we're inviting foreign groups these need to know where they stand. Yes, that means excluding some possiblities.<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 12/1/03 7:15 pm<br></i>
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#20
Goffredo,<br>
I suppose that perhaps they tried to break the enemy lines in formation with a cuneus, using the spears, rather than resort to hacking their way by the sword (of course, I wasn't there to see it, I'm only 43! )<br>
<br>
Titus,<br>
That is the problem, every person or every group can only attend to a limited number of events, provided that at least costs are covered. If attending implies costs, the number is reduced greatly.<br>
Maybe some degree of competition between event's organizers could be detected and that is not good. We musn't forget that we are supposed to be at this business mainly for fun and if ge start getting angered, we should reconsider the whole thing!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#21
Sorry we can move this to another thread then.<br>
Before leaving then I would like to throw a stone in the pond and ask provocatively: if "spear poking away" at enemy line could break it then why did romans invent the "volley of pila and then sword play" in the first place! Why use risky sword play if you could do the same with spearing technique of phalanxs. The old terrain explanation (phalanxes VS legion) doesn't explain why evolution closed circles: phalanxes to - manipular - to - cohort - back to phalanxes. If this topic is interesting to the few interested in late roman army then lets open up a dedicated thread. <p></p><i></i>
Jeffery Wyss
"Si vos es non secui of solutio tunc vos es secui of preciptate."
Reply
#22
<br>
Competition? Anger? Costs? Where?<br>
As you know because I already invited your group and Alain's Foederati, in my previous events (but you could not attend) the groups got very good food, confortable wooden bungalows accomodation, plus 300 euros to each one of the <span style="text-decoration:underline">150</span> roman soldiers reenactors... What more?<br>
I really thought it covered any cost travelling by bus and moreover, having all a lot of fun to attend it could be a good thing if compared to other events level. I always organized the things like I had to invite <span style="text-decoration:underline">friends</span> trying to assure an overall good quality to them and to the public. And to tell the truth I really think I succeeded. I never thought to be in competition with anyone, because I simply don't care of it.<br>
<br>
And please be patient with this 46 years old "kid", let me be a little bit romantic about the "fun" matter, apart the incredible emotion of the big parades with the eagles and the standards(a travel trough the time...) along the decumanus of Ostia you could see in the videos I put online, the emotion of the "battles" (love thom or not, so they were), one thing impressed me above all: when on sunday afternoon coming back to the "camp", in the roman sunset light filtering among the pines trees after the end of the last round of the event, we (I was in the ranks of Legio XXX UTV), marching tired even if happy, in a perfect pace at the sound of the utricula, we met the guys of the Legio X GPF and a natural multiple "clamor" of salute started strong from both the groups: it lasted for a while. Ask anyone there and he will tell you that something of magic and sacred happened: a sort of suspended and timeless atmosphere that deeply touched us, call it military friendship, comradeship, or memory/celebration of our ancestors in the real roman Army or whatever you like... You can joke about it too, but, ok, ok, I must confess that my eyes went wet: I'll never forget it.<br>
<br>
Is it only fun?<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius<br>
<p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini

... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...


Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
[Image: PRIMANI_ban2.gif]
Reply
#23
Oh, no, no, Titus!<br>
I'm sorry if I've offended you in some way! I was trying to tell too many things in too many space and in a hurry, that's the problem!<br>
In a more expanded way, I was meaning that the number of Roman re-enactment groups, although growing year by year, is limited. The period of the year apt for open air activities is even more limited. Therefore, if the number of the multitudinous Roman festivals increases too, they are in clear collision risk.<br>
I'm not alluding to any concrete festival, please, don't misunderstand me! If the scope of one festival is to get together the maximum possible number of re-enactors, it is easy to understand that there will not be enough of them to fill the ranks at all the similar festivals, moreover when if they are held in closely packed dates.<br>
At that point, rivalries and competition for the most attractive groups are ineludible. And, of course, the groups will have to choose to which festivals they will attend, in terms of bare money, friendship, public relations, etc. and say 'no' to the rest. That even at the risk of not being invited on subsequent years.<br>
IMHO, in Europe there is only 'room' for a few 'big' festivals, but that must not pose a problem. There is a format for smaller festivals with only two or three re-enactment groups invited. If a festival gets itself firmly established, it will have a more or less fixed public year after year, who will demand for variety. Bringing different groups every year would make the festival ever attractive. That way, there would be room for all the groups to attend to all the festivals during a period of years and repetition would not be a risk.<br>
<br>
That's all<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#24
Good evening,<br>
<br>
I'm the Chair of Comitatus, a group of over 50 portraying a Late Roman Infantry unit of around 400A.D. in the north of England.<br>
<br>
I've been reading the comments on this site with interest, especially the ones about us!<br>
<br>
We would like to be part of any Late Roman gathering, to compare and learn from other groups. However we are already contracted for 2004, and are taking bookings for 2005. Organising such an event will take time and I'm not sure that it can be done by Easter 2004. Any such event this year may get a couple of us, but we want to come on mass.<br>
<br>
Primarily we are a living history group portraying the skills of the Late Roman army, although we have engaged Germanic groups like ERA in combat. If the sponsor requires us to fight we try and oblige by demonstrating the variety of missile weapons available to the Late Roman army, before using a spear and shield. We use metal weapons carefully, not felt or rubber weapons brutally.<br>
<br>
Perhaps we can agree on a date in 2005?<br>
<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
Reply
#25
To Titus Sabatinus, ave.<br>
<br>
My group and I were very sorry not to be able to attend the last edition of Ostia's event. Next year, we'll try to come !!! All I need is to know when it will take place. I agree with Aitor about the problem of a "competition" between the different events. For us it's just the same, even if we would like to, we are not able to attend every events abroad... Some people of my group are a bit difficult to "move" for more than a weekend... and an event such as yours necessitate to take two or three days rest. Personnally I'll be happy to do so, and I guess two or three of my guys will come too, even if there are some other shows out of France.<br>
Alain<br>
<p></p><i></i>
Reply
#26
Welcome to the RAT, John!<br>
Maybe it is too late to organize a Late Roman meeting for next year's Easter, but never to keep in contact using this Forum!<br>
We could even use it to organize a future meeting.<br>
In the meantime, I think that the most important thing would be to create and consolidate that Late annual (or bi-annual?) meeting, no matter if some of us cannot attend to the first edition.<br>
Your opinion?<br>
It would be great if we had more opinions from the other groups here!<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#27
<br>
<br>
Aitor, that's clearer!<br>
<br>
Alain, I understand the problem: I'll try to announce soon the event dates: hope to see you guys, you already know my e-mail address for any update!<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Titus Sabatinus Aquilius <p></p><i></i>
TITVS/Daniele Sabatini

... Tu modo nascenti puero, quo ferrea primum
desinet ac toto surget Gens Aurea mundo,
casta faue Lucina; tuus iam regnat Apollo ...


Vergilius, Bucolicae, ecloga IV, 4-10
[Image: PRIMANI_ban2.gif]
Reply
#28
I'm happier now, Titus!<br>
<br>
We should know how many groups would be able to attend to a meeting next year but without getting too nervous about it. We're not trying to beat any record or any other festival, aren't we, Dan?<br>
<br>
Aitor <p></p><i></i>
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#29
Hi John,<br>
I've seen pictures of Comitatus at the Bolsover event, your outfit looks very good. It would be great if you could join us, or just a few of you, next spring. I agree that we should start early, even for a 2005 date.<br>
<br>
Dan, could we decide on a date by mid-dember at the latest?<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
Reply
#30
Good evening,<br>
<br>
Yes it would be good if we could come, but we are already contracted for next Easter, and just about every second week after that until September! I'm pleased people have seem pictures of us in action, but Bolsolver was along time ago. We're better now!<br>
<br>
We have some shows for 2005 but Easter is free. Could we tempt people to the Northern Frontier?<br>
<br>
John <p></p><i></i>
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Roman groups wanted for Event in Moscow! caiusbeerquitius 3 1,119 02-06-2015, 10:13 AM
Last Post: Rado
  Marle 20-9 2009 Late roman event. (France) Bran ap Maclou 25 5,121 10-14-2009, 11:44 AM
Last Post: FAVENTIANVS
  Late Roman Event Sledmere House, East Yorkshire John Conyard 2 863 05-09-2009, 07:36 AM
Last Post: John Conyard

Forum Jump: