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First try at a Xiphos
#16
The new shape is a big improvement IMO! :woot:
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#17
Thanks Evan,with this one I just had to much *pugio* and *Conolly* in my head and made it harder on myself than it needed to be. But,that's what happens when you don't do research first Wink
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#18
Great work, Dave! Looks just the thing. Very inspiring, too :-)
Salvete et Valete

Nil volentibus arduum


Robert P. Wimmers
Archeologie Beleven!
>http://www.ferrumantica.eu  (The NEW Fabrica of Vvlpivs!)
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#19
Thank you Robert! To be honest,I'll never be 100% happy with it,only because, when I look at it I know that if I had taken my time and,found out more,even starting incorrectly I could have done (and,not done) somethings that would have made it better.
I don't mind that so much,when I make the next,these lessons will pay off.
1. Strart with nothing wider than 1.5" wide and,probably less.
2. Draw the spurs from the hilt end,not the blade.
3. Keep all the lines *organic* try not to think *Roman*
Think if I follow this the next one will be right on target,now to saw some bones.
.
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#20
Couldn't leave it be Smile took a couple more *bites* out of the grip and,now I'm feeling a little better with the shape.


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#21
Learned one more lesson,move the pins on the guard closer together,ruined my nice bone scales Sick ah well,wood will do this time.


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#22
From what I have seen, there is no rivit in the central portion of the handle and your observation could explain why there are iron caps over the flanges/spurs, with indeed the rivits being closer togetter to fix these. Is that one piece of bone in the picture?? Wow, what did you use to get it so wide?
Salvete et Valete

Nil volentibus arduum


Robert P. Wimmers
Archeologie Beleven!
>http://www.ferrumantica.eu  (The NEW Fabrica of Vvlpivs!)
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#23
Rivet patterns seem to be all over the place,seen some with 5 or,6 down the middle, several where, I can't make any out at all? May have something to do with the exact time period of the original or,perhaps region manufactured?
I still have MUCH to learn on these...
The scales in the picture are wood,think Birch but,that is a guess,I'm not good with wood identification by sight.
The bone ones were identical (one still is) those I cut from a section of cow pelvis,there is an area on both sides that goes from round to flat that works perfectly for this.
Ah,the benifits of rural living,I can take a walk and,find things like a cow pelvis,dried and,bleached by the sun waiting to saw up :-D
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#24
Well,this is as about as far as I'm going with this one,not perfect still,glad I was talked out of cutting it up for spears Wink
[attachment=8593]002_2013-12-19.JPG[/attachment]


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#25
By the way, I was indeed totaly wrong about the rivits in the handle. As you observe, there are quite a few that have them in numbers!
Salvete et Valete

Nil volentibus arduum


Robert P. Wimmers
Archeologie Beleven!
>http://www.ferrumantica.eu  (The NEW Fabrica of Vvlpivs!)
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#26
That's the challenge with these eh,Robert? Very little solid documentation compared to Roman swords.
Information is hard to find,it's a challenge,I'm *baby stepping* my way with it and,many things I'm forced to just go from art work,like the pommel,that even though looked good on the vase,now that I see it in reality has to change Smile
Now I hear the guard on the one I have my eye on next may have been solid silver!
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#27
Most guards seem to be sheet folded over the spurs, not solid at all, so that may lower the cost somewhat. Silver is not that expensive, could have been gold :-)
Salvete et Valete

Nil volentibus arduum


Robert P. Wimmers
Archeologie Beleven!
>http://www.ferrumantica.eu  (The NEW Fabrica of Vvlpivs!)
Reply
#28
True,I had made a nice sheet covering for the guard on this one but,when I put it on the *spur* broke on my wooden scales :-x so,just cut my losses this time. On a really nice one, sheet silver guard plates with bone would be very attractive,maybe some silver on the pommel too.
Started to feel I misunderstood the painting so,reworked the pommel.
[attachment=8595]008_2013-12-20.JPG[/attachment]


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#29
Hello. The guards are actually usually solid. The two solid parts are connected with a thinner sheet , under which the grip scale is secured and riveted. At least some times this efect was achieved by having solid piaces on the guard, and then add a longer sheet of iron to cover them and connect them, so that an empty space was created in the middle grip. The solid guards and the additional sheet were riveted together and then probably filed together so that it is very difficult to distinguish the seam.
Not that there aren't any hilts with just an iron sheet over the organic guard, but they apear much more rarely. They were more common in Etruscan swords.
What i have never seen is a completely solid guard, like one piece of equal thickness riveted on either side of the blade. They probably considered a solid piece on the grip as a waste of weight.
I have not seen a silver covered guard. I have seen many covered in gold sheet, although they were probably added only for the funeral. Only the so called Philip's sword (one of the five burried with him) seems to have solid gold guard pieces, or they might be guilded silver.
The pommels often had two iron rings on the edges of the cylinder, that were nailed in place with four tiny nails. Some times the space between these two rings was filed so that the cylinder was slimmer in the center than in the edges. It is always overlooked that about 1/3 or more of the pommels shown in art, and about the same percentage of the originals have a conical or hemispherical pommel, usually covered in sheet iron. Some times it looks like half a fruit, and indeed in greek they are called "apples". They don't look like apples though, more like a round fig. There is a great variety of shapes however. In art certainly there are one or two more types of pommels that i have never seen on originals, but i don't doubt they existed.
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#30
Forgive the crudness of the sketch but,if I understand,this is what you are telling me is most common,Giannis?


[attachment=8597]tumblr_mkjr4vaAO81rd3evlo1_1280_2013-12-20.jpg[/attachment]


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