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Agamemnon\'s Helmet
#16
Hi Martin
I understand about the implied antiquity of the non-metallic descriptions, but even if you take 1200 BCE or so as a date for the Trojan War, it seems like metal helmets would have been pretty common, as we're looking at the end of traditional chariot warfare. Scale armour helmets were more difficult to produce and reserved for elite charioteers, while others wore sheet helmets or leather helmets, during Late Bronze Age.
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#17
Hector's helmet, or helmets, are directly described as being bronze - I was thinking more of the Greeks as it was the Anax Andron's helmet that was under discussion.

Your basic problem, as I see it, is that you need to come up with something that makes the parts of the helmet called bosses, opaworta, sheets or whatever, just as visually arresting and obvious as are the horns and the crest. If you cannot come up with some reasonable method for doing this you are producing a helmet based on only part of the Homeric description. The bronze helmet remains you have shown with little raised roundels on the cheekpieces and skull just don't cut the mustard as being visually arresting enough to be given a specific description.
Martin

Fac me cocleario vomere!
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#18
To me the helmet as described sounds like one of these albeit with horns and a plume added which considering the construction would be quite possible to do, it also seems to be reasonably contemporary with Homer and not too far away.

Shüsselhelm

Shüsselhelm

see: Markus Egg "The Altestten Helme der Hallstattzeit" in "Antike Helme" RGZ

Best Regards
Ivor

"And the four bare walls stand on the seashore. a wreck a skeleton a monument of that instability and vicissitude to which all things human are subject. Not a dwelling within sight, and the farm labourer, and curious traveller, are the only persons that ever visit the scene where once so many thousands were congregated." T.Lewin 1867
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#19
Martin, thanks for your thoughts and perspective. I also think that the phalera refer to the additional sheets added to the basic kegelhelm, as opposed to being decorative elements --Dan's going to cover both bases by adding both. Ivor, I ran across that helmet of bosses before when I was researcing bezainted armour --pretty cool eh?
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#20
Quote:Your basic problem, as I see it, is that you need to come up with something that makes the parts of the helmet called bosses, opaworta, sheets or whatever, just as visually arresting and obvious as are the horns and the crest. If you cannot come up with some reasonable method for doing this you are producing a helmet based on only part of the Homeric description. The bronze helmet remains you have shown with little raised roundels on the cheekpieces and skull just don't cut the mustard as being visually arresting enough to be given a specific description.
I agree and have already said that we think Homer is more likely speaking about the four additional plates added to the kegelhelm rather than decorative bosses. But we can cover both options in the same construction. Homer also frequently describes helmets as "hollow-eyed" - the only helmets we can find with that feature from the right time period is the kegelhelm.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#21
Quote:To me the helmet as described sounds like one of these albeit with horns and a plume added which considering the construction would be quite possible to do, it also seems to be reasonably contemporary with Homer and not too far away.

Shüsselhelm

Shüsselhelm

see: Markus Egg "The Altestten Helme der Hallstattzeit" in "Antike Helme" RGZ
I considered that option. But there are no extant examples that have cheek guards and are capable of having a horsehair crest and horns attached. Everything seems to point to the kegelhelm.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#22
Absolutely! I posted the cheekpiece with the decoration because the daisy-like rosette I believe would be described as a star; stars are described as spangling Achilles armour. When it was new, it must have twinkled like a star in the light --I'm adding them to the kegelhelm I am making, so we'll see. In the Iliad terms like top-dome or cone or horn are used to describe the top of Achilles' helmet and others. Just the fact they are describing separate parts of a helmet vs. One of solid sheet is interesting indeed --kegelhelms. That cheekpiece and others were found dedicated to Zeus at Olympia, close to ancient Mycenae. I think we might be surprised and even shocked if we ever knew the true provenance of some of those pieces.. The piece with the star must have hade a forehead section above it, based on rivet holes, now missing. It could have supported horns. There is a statuette from Syria or Cyprus depicting a horned kegelhelm.
A German exhibition:
http://www.zum.de/Faecher/G/BW/Landeskun...n/helm.htm
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#23
It's no surprise that there was a Trojan horse and not a bull or weasel! Kegelhelms are lousy with horse decorations! In Born's book on early Greek helmets there are a couple --one he shows a contruction diagram for, kegelhelms with tall horse crests with horsehair. The motif covers pottery too. The Mykonos Vase shows kegelhelms in conjunction with Naue II swords. Looks like a siege engine --there are troops around it, no one is being fooled or surprised...
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#24
I have seen reproduced Mycenaean shorstswords/daggers with the bronze body of the blade given a browned finish, which highlights the gold and silver of the inlaid figures.

A bronze helmet with a similar finish, furnished with gilt-bronze or silver bosses would have a very impressive appearance, and the contrast would make the bosses very distinct visually.
Martin

Fac me cocleario vomere!
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#25
Quote:Looks like a siege engine --there are troops around it, no one is being fooled or surprised...
That was the second one. The first Trojan horse worked so well that they thought they might try it again Smile
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#26
Here is a bracelet that Jeffrey made to show how the decoration on Agamemnon's armour is going to look. The coloured bands are tin, 22K gold, and Ceramit enamel. The tin turned out to be too hard to control and take way too long to apply so aluminium leaf will be used as a substitute. The gold and silver contrasts well with the bronze even without browning the finish and he has found a "lemon yellow" gold that contrasts even better than the 22K gold.


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Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#27
How is the project going? The bracelet looks amazing!
Polemarch of the Spartiates: Aegiadae

Hardwig
http://spartiates.agogeads.be
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#28
I managed to get a quick look at the bracelet before my wife and daughter made off with it Smile
Regarding the armour: Jeff has just rolled all of the edges; next step is chasing the herringbone border.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#29
Hello Dan.
Take a look at this E-Book http://www.latsis-foundation.org/megazin...reloader=1
All the book is great but you might find p.158 particularly interesting
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#30
Excellent. I have a line drawing of this but haven't seen a colour photo before. That is the kind of helmet that we think is being depicted in the Iliad.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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