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Armor of the Divine Triad : lamellar armor
#46
Yes, of course, one belt for pugio / apron and another for the gladius Big Grin
[Image: inaciem-bandeau.png]
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#47
Quote:As to the tailoring of lamellar, I believe that Achilles T&Y lamellar corselet in the Etruscan relief known as Sacrifice of The Trojan Prisoner, could be construed to be called tailored.
[attachment=6934]sacrificeofthetrojanprisonersbw.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=6935]sacrificetrojanprisonerscolour.jpg[/attachment]
regards
Richard

Note that Achilles is also wearing vambraces! A twofer!
Pecunia non olet
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#48
Jori asked:

practical details, for a roman legionary :
a) fascia ventralis or not?
b) can i use a cingulum or not? Or even 2 ?


Gaius Julius Caesar answered:

Yes, 2 belts but I think just the one apron, which is what I think you mean.

I wonder. Look at the Adamklissi legionaries, they are wearing such long suits of armour, only of mail or (apparent) scale construction, and none have a cingulum apron. They seem to be carrying their swords and daggers on a single belt.
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#49
You can wear two belts. But I would imagine only one would have the apron.

Who knows what incident that image represents? Perhaps they armed in haste to defend against attack
You dont need the belt to fight....especially if the sword is on a baldric. I assume you refer to the image where they have only baldrics?

By the period of the Trajanic campaign in Dacia, the 2 belt fashion had disappeared, I think.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#50
Tim
the pic is not great but it is there on the figure(I assume as Achilles)on the right. It is interesting because it is the only picture I know of from this period/region that shows the plates being rounded on one edge. If memory serves, the plates pn the upper part of the armour are pointing down, the plates on the lower part are pointing up and the waist band seems to be laced differently to the rest of the corselet.
regards
Richard
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#51
Quote:c) do I need a subarmalis? Yes.
Only for a segmentata. Other armours work perfectly well with a liner made of a few layers of linen (or leather). Scale armour had its own liner. Greek plate cuirasses had their own integrated liners and there is no reason to think that Roman ones weren't made the same way. IMO Roman mail also had its own integrated liner. That's why it is depicted with that leather edging.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#52
No I would disagree there.
Mail would still need a padded subarmalis. If its integrated to the Armour, so be it, but it's still a subarmalis.

Taker a few blows in mail without any sub padding and you will know all about it.

And even scale will require padding under it.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#53
Edouard, you asked a question I failed to answer:

> do you you know if remnants of lamellar armour have ever been found further west than the finds in Amathus and Idalion on Cyprus?

There is quite a lot of lamellar West of Cyprus, but all after the fall of the western provinces - C6th to ?C14th? and as far West as Spain.

Timothy
Social History and Material Culture of the Enduring Roman Empire.

http://www.levantia.com.au
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#54
So only Levantine examples of the earlier type? Tough luck, I hoped for Amathus/Idalion type lamellae in Italy or North Africa, which would be helpful for reconstructing for instance the Etruscan lamellar cuirasses (and would make the "light armour of the Carthaginians" a bit less elusive, I am betting they used lamellar).
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#55
Quote:Mail would still need a padded subarmalis. If its integrated to the Armour, so be it, but it's still a subarmalis.
Back to semantics again. What is a subarmalis?
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#56
Quote:
Gaius Julius Caesar post=334861 Wrote:Mail would still need a padded subarmalis. If its integrated to the Armour, so be it, but it's still a subarmalis.
Back to semantics again. What is a subarmalis?

Padding protection under the armour. And I am not totally convinced on the leather argument.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#57
Gaius Julius Caesar wrote:

You dont need the belt to fight....especially if the sword is on a baldric. I assume you refer to the image where they have only baldrics?

You are right, I had not noticed that. So only one belt, for the pugio (No disrespect, but your argument of hastily armed legionaries depicted by the artist of the metopes conjures up an Asterix and Obelix meet Monty Python vision of a legionary ready to slay a Dacian, and then ... "Hold it right there! Absolutely perfect! Could you move a bit more to the ... perfect! (tchak, tchak, tchak, tchak, tchak) OK, one metope ready! What do you think? Looks good! Well, I think youw pwotagonists awe anatomically incowwect and wathew ugly. And you awe not even weawing youw nob-guawd, how obscene! Shut up Dacian, you're dead! I say, am I? What wotten luck!")
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#58
If we are just talking about the padding under the armor, of course it's vital. Any reenactor knows that Big Grin

I was considering to build the padding directly with the armor, instead of having a separated one from the armour. Or having the two, why not. Some leather or some layers of glued linen on the armor will avoid the brass wires to rub my linen/wool padded jacket (subarmalis). Nothing prevents me to add extra layers of linen / wool to the leather, if I wanted so.
[Image: inaciem-bandeau.png]
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#59
Quote:If we are just talking about the padding under the armor, of course it's vital. Any reenactor knows that Big Grin

Are you sure about that?
You would be surprised how many I see wearing mail directly on a tunic! 8-)
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#60
According to Markus Junkelmann, they would all be wearing some kind of padding underneath their armour as soon as they were being bludgeoned by arrows, stones, spears and swords, because the strikken metal armour quickly makes short work of the tunic underneath, after which the metal starts cutting into the skin.
I, however, have never experienced it, so what do I know.
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