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The Eagle Has Fallen
#16
I give Mr Young full credit for standing his ground in what could be perceived to be an unduly discouraging response to his post.

It clearly states that it is a novel about how the Ninth disappeared in Britain. We all know (or should, by now, thanks to at least Dr Campbell's article) that the Ninth did not disappear in Britain. So why do people jump down Mr Young's throat? Can you imagine what would have happened if Rosemary Sutcliffe posted on this Forum about her Eagle of the Ninth trilogy??? An author who is single handedly responsible for the interest in Roman Britain for generations of people World wide would be shot down in flames by those who cannot stretch the imagination to a good story, well written with competant back ground research which is not forced down one's throat in a school teacher manner.

I personally do not want to read a description of a chracter to the "nth" degree in his perfectly researched First Century AD equipment. I want to read about his story, his emotions, the evocation of a time we all have an affinity with.

His story should not be confused with history!!
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#17
Smile

Thanks Robert,Alan & Vindex,
Gettting a book written is difficult, getting it published is even more difficult, but the hardest part is getting your name & book known.

I thought a forum like this would appreciate a book about Rome and the Romans in Briton especially as it is about the disappearance of the Ninth legion.

Hopefully if you do read the book, you will learn something about the period and perhaps realise there is more to the story than most ' sword & sandles ' books.

Transport yourselves back to 117AD and enjoy the story.
Its called faction- fact and fiction mixed in.
I leave to the reader to decide for themselves how much of the rest is a matter of speculation or fact....

Born By Caesar, Baptised in Blood, Crowned in Glory
Ninth Hispania Legion

http://www.eaglehasfallen.com


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Brian y
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#18
I think it's great you've written this book. I've just starting readin fiction/non fiction about the period and find it all quite interesting. I've actually had your book on my list of ones to get.

Think it's easy for people who are hard core about this period (and that's not a bad thing) as can be seen by attention to details in recreations and such, to lose sight of the average person's interest.

Ancient Rome is probably not on many average person's radar, if historical fiction brings more people into the area, these people can decide how in depth they need to go.

As I'm only a recently joined member I'm probably a bit more towards the historical fiction end of things, I can appreciate the work going into the historical preservation found here and yet know that I'll never be a participant except in the most casual of ways.

Well done on the book Brian!
Chris
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#19
And there my first reaction was "and he can't get up" .
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#20
Great cover! :woot:

I'm with Robert, Chris, and Moi. We ALL know what "probably" happened to the Ninth, but a novel can transport us (and the Ninth) to a "novel" and imaginative place... which, by the premise itself, is NOT reality. Confusedilly:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#21
I have a different opinion.

Why do we need fictional novels when reality outcomes fiction? Or why twist reality to make a fiction?
Will we have someday a good real story, where I can learn things in a pleasant way?

Like Jurjen, I'm having difficulties to accept that.

Nota Bene : I do love Gladiator. Like Lord of the Rings. But it's hard for me to answer for the Xth time to the public that no, Commodus didn't die on a amphitheater and no, the Gauls didn't had magic potion, for instance!
[Image: inaciem-bandeau.png]
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#22
Quote:I have a different opinion.

Why do we need fictional novels when reality outcomes fiction? Or why twist reality to make a fiction?
Will we have someday a good real story, where I can learn things in a pleasant way?

Hello, Jori

As you say, fiction is a twist on reality. That's why it's fiction. It arrives in various forms, some of it structured to complete historical grounding, while other novels (or short stories) morph into alternate history, even alternate reality... as in the case of sci-fi, which can be written within a historical context. Surprisingly, we can "learn things in a pleasant way" even within fiction.

I can't speak for Brian, but I'm sure he'll post an answer. Personally, I have written a novel that doesn't stray from historical truth, but it has metaphysical elements. Likewise, I wrote a "tale" so outrageous that no-one could possibly believe it, even though it appeared within a historical setting. Fiction is fun to read. To many authors, it's the highest form of good writing; all you've got to do is hone the art of it.

There are certainly novels that respect history to the letter, such as those by Peal Buck and James Mitchner. But we cannot fault Brian or Rosemary for introducing conjecture where no proof of the POOF exists. ;-)
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#23
It's not the fiction, the issue. It's the tiny frontier between fiction and reality, merged by general public. I do like fiction, I even did did some amateur comic books in the past! I also made a lot of twists for what I thought it would be great on my pictures.

I was wrong, and if I knew by then what I know today, it would have been different. Without loosing anything in quality in my stories or my pictures, au contraire.

In the presentation of this new novel about the Leg IX, it is unclear that it's a fiction, it's ambiguous. If in the synopsis it would state that the IX disappeared because of a dragon, the ambiguity would vanish.
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#24
Quote:It's not the fiction, the issue. It's the tiny frontier between fiction and reality... If in the synopsis it would state that the IX disappeared because of a dragon, the ambiguity would vanish.

True, the ambiguity would vanish but so would the readership. The author can't drop a "spoiler;" it's saved for the climax. Confusedmile:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#25
My favorite novel about the Roman period is and will always be Rosemary Sutcliff's 'Eagle of the Ninth'. Yes, it's about the IX Hispana being defeated in Caledonia, and yes, she was dead wrong about that (although she probably could not know it at the time. Does that make me like the book any less? Absolutely not. The characters, the story, the setting, they all make for a wonderful book - it actually got me into linking the Roman period and becoming a historian.

So kudos to any author who can write a good book. Should we demand that historical novels are also historically correct? I think not, readers should be aware that novels are always going further than history can ever take us - every character in the book needs to be fictional to a certain extent (we don't have any personal diaries nor written records of personal conversations!). I mean, it's FICTION - demanding accuracy is just not possible.

I agree, to read that the IX Hispana was in fact destroyed by a sudden charge of Uruk-Hai with the wizard Saruman shooting bolts from the next hilltop would be surpring! But then again, that's fiction for you. Wink
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Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#26
Back to Robert,

A very good point. Rosemary Sutcliff wrote The Eagle 40 years ago(I think), and we all know what Roman studies were like at that time. She accomplished an amazing job, and her novel made a difference. You rooted for the main character, that person was "alive" in your mind, and you (the reader) slipped into the fictional dream.

When a writer can do that-- bring the reader back to a "living" time and place-- they have accomplished quite a feat. I wonder how many of us reenactors were influenced by both novels and non-fiction Roman-esque books? Perhaps a high percentage. :unsure:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#27
Hi all,
like Robert I can honestly say that I was completely stunned by Rosemary Sutcliff's 'Eagle of the Ninth'. I was fascinated that the Romans could 'loose a Legion' some where and this left me to write to Curator of Archaeology at Reading museum and ask about the Roman Eagle that was found in Silchester.

She confirmed that the Eagle found was a genuine Roman one however would not have been carried on a Standard. However I wasn't satisfied and decided to research more about the Ninth Legion.
Out of all of this came a book & story.

Because of the Ninth being so well known, I wanted to write the story as accurately as possible, with
as much emphasis on the facts as possible. So, most of the characters actually existed and many of the events took place.You have to leave some artistic licenese to write a good story though!

(I did think about them being killed by the Wizard of OZ but was not happy with that ending!)

At the end of the day reality was important for me and so I have tried to write it as such.
For people who appreciate in some form ,facts ,real believable characters and a plot that followed Hadrian's arrival on the throne, his treatment by the senate, his intentions and details of what he achieved in the Empire, as well as the gripping story of the Ninth , you would love it!

But I am biased! Big Grin

[attachment=6768]Attachment-1.jpg[/attachment]

Born by Caesar, Baptised in Blood, Crowned in Glory
Ninth Hispania Legion


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Brian y
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#28
Hi all,
like Robert I can honestly say that I was completely stunned by Rosemary Sutcliff's 'Eagle of the Ninth'. I was facinated that the Romans could 'loose a Legion' some where and this left me to write to Curator of Archaeology at Reading museum and ask about the Roman Eagle that was found in Silchester.

She confirmed that the Eagle found was a geunine Roman one however would not have been carried on a Standard. However I was wasn't satisfied and decided to research more about the Ninth Legion.
Out of all of this came a book & story.

Because of the Ninth being so well known, I wanted to write the story as accurately as possible, with
as much emphahsis on the facts as possible. So most of the characters actually existed and many of the events took place.You have to leave some artistic licenese to write a good story though!

(I did think about them being killed by the Wizard of OZ but was not happy with that ending!)

At the end of the day reality was important for me and so I have tried to write it as such.
For people who apprecaite in some form ,facts ,real believable characters and a plot that followed Hadrians arrival on the throne, his treatment by the senate, his intentions and details of what he achieved in the Empire, as well as the gripping story of the Ninth , you would love it!

But I am biased! Big Grin
Brian y
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#29
Quote:Rosemary Sutcliff... You rooted for the main character, that person was "alive" in your mind

Actually I think Sutcliff's characterisation was the weakest aspect of the 'eagle' novels - her repeated Marcus Aquilas always seemed a bit bland to me and lacked depth. Alcibiades in her 'grown up' novel The Flowers of Adonis was much darker and more complex, so it was probably just a product of the intended readership.

Sutcliff was great at plot, pace and description - 'eagle of the ninth' etc have a really vivid sense of place and atmosphere. Some of the landscapes in Frontier Wolf (another 'Aquila' book) are really quite lyrical. By contrast, the protagonists often seem like cyphers for the author's (or reader's) point of view. It's the quality of the writing and the storytelling that makes these books classics.
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#30
I looked at the silchester site, very interesting.

I didn't realize "eagle of the ninth" was a children's book? I've never read it.

http://www.reading.ac.uk/silchester/disc...eagle.aspx

I've read one of Felix Dahn's novels and he has quite a number of books on Rome, and they're all in the public domain so free for kindles.

Chris
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