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Battle in the shade of arrows
#1
A very intersting article for the use of archery in Ancient Greek battlefields

by Aristodemus Nikiteas - Koryvantes


http://velopeia.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/b..._9540.html


Adonis
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
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#2
Indeed, Adonis

This is a very enlightening article on Greek archers, and it's a shame that more RAT members aren't checking it out. It relates, indirectly, to Roman archery. And it's interesting to note that these Greek reenactors are using Toth and Kasai bows with sayahs... which the ancient Spartans and hoplites didn't have. Wink
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#3
Adam Karpowicz http://www.ottoman-turkish-bow shows an actual reconstruction of the ancient, "Cupid" shape composite reflex-bow of the Scythians/Saka. It turns out to be a remarkably powerful bow as you can see on the pictures. It is a reconstruction offcourse, but still, it suggests the story that the earlier bows were weak as compared to the later composite reflex-bows of double omega shape isn't necessarily true.
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#4
Hi, Eduard

The ancient Greek bows were designed after the steppe bows developed at the beginning of the 2nd century BC, and there's no reason to assume they were deficient in power. After all, Odysseus' bow was a muscle-breaker, and the distance record (1,700 feet) was made by a Crimean Greek using a Scythian bow.
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#5
Hello All,

This is my first post to the forums, if I'm doing this wrong please forgive me.
Thank you for posting this link on the ancient Greek archery topic.
It is timely for me personally, I've just restarted reading Homer's Iliad again after a 37 year break.
The archery is popular activity in my children's scout units.
I have very newbie questions, so please bear with me.

Is this bow style the type the any of the soldiers in Homer's stories would be using?

Sincerely,
tn hillbilly
Thank You,
David Ward
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#6
Hi, David

Welcome to RAT!

The bow style shown in article's photos is actually Hunnic-Sarmatian, showing up around the 2nd century BC. It has "sayahs," long inflexible slats at both ends of the bow. The two bowyers mentioned-- Kassi and Toth-- are Hungarians.

The actual bows used during the Trojan war had no sayahs. They were the "cupid" type, based on steppe bows developed in the early 2nd millennium BC, also known as "Scythian" bows, a recurved bow of composite materials (sinew on the outside, a central stip of wood, and the inside [facing the archer] of cattle horn).

I hope this is of some help. Confusedmile:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#7
I think there is some confusion... :?

The article shows only ancient Greek pottery images and arrowheads... absolutelly no Hunnic-Sarmatian style bows are meant to be used by Ancient Greek Hoplites !!!


next to te article there is a vertical bar with non-related (to the article) info: blog index, announcements, byzantine reenactment fotos, archers armor, sculptures, and bows of the personal collection of the Author (a couple of photos with Kassai and Toth photos with Aristodemos sample work on arrow-building)

all these fotos have no relationship with the article, the page layout is typical for a blog (main theme on the left, additional info on the right)



we are preparing an article (to be published soon) with all the evolution of ancient Greek bows - from Mycaenean era to Hellenistic armies

I hope this helps Smile
Adonis
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
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#8
Regarding the bows used by bronze age warriors (like during the Troyan war), it is correct that no sayahs-bows were used (this is amuch later invention)

"cupid" bows was one of the types used, but not the only one - please refer to

http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/weapons3.htm

simple curved, double-convex, double-concave, triangular bows were largely used in the East Mediterranean, during Bronze age - also the use of these types is documented during Archaic / Classical era

it is also important to mention that Homer clearly describes composite bows: the bows of Oduseus (Ulysses) and Pandarus (from Lycia) are mentioned to be built using wood / horn

of course both Pandarus and Oduseus were Mycaenean Anaktes (Kings), capable to own expensive exotic weapons... not all bows of bronze age were composite Confusedmile:


Adonis
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
Reply
#9
back to Adonis,

That link was a confusing mess. We had an article on hoplite archery, references to older stuff, and then non-related photos of Greek reenactors using Magyar bows-- diametrically opposing stuff. :dizzy:

You would think, if you were a Greek reenactor, that you might use a modern-made Scythian bow; and I think Persian bows (with no sayahs) are also available... from Csaba Grozer. But what the hell. I'll become a Caveman reenactor and carry a Colt 45. 8)
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#10
Hi Alanus,

I have already advised Aristodemus to change the layout of his blog, so it is less confusing for readers :-)



the colt45 is interesting object :-), we may consider for future projects (20th century reenactment)


Adonis
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
Reply
#11
Yoh, Adonis

Actually, here in the US we have guys who dress up like cowboys and shoot competitively at metal targets with their Colt 45s. :dizzy:

It's whatever turns the Little Boy in you on! :grin:
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#12
Regarding the question of David about the types of arrows in Bronze age, the following image of Lascaux hunters (dated 17000 bc)

http://blogodiversity.files.wordpress.co...nters1.jpg


shows the use 4 differnt bows from our ancestors, during a hunting scene


you can clearly see (from top to down):

longbow/selffow
simple curved (primitive)
double convex (presented exactly the same as the bows that Appolo/Artemis carry in Greek potteries)
reflex (palin-tonon) - possibly a composite bow ?(many people will argue on this)


the reality is that the history of bow-making is extremely difficult to be standardized, as well as impossible to find out which bow type influenced the others and when



Adonis
Antonis Aliades

KORYVANTES Association
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