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1st cent Patera
#1
Hi all
I'm inquisitive and curious as to why all re-enactors use "silver coloured" pateras in thier impedimenta/marching pack.
I recently visited Exeter RAM and saw 3 pateras, as one mass..ie on top of each other...and noticed that these had a lot of tarnishing/greening, obviously oxidisation. As far as i am aware these were dated 2nd/3rd century.The so called "greening" would imply an alloy other than "tinned" steel/iron....Brass...lol...ok maybee Bronze?
My big question is...were Legionary Pateras universal in size/type/metal composition or were they ad-hoc items to be purchased in whatever form in whatever theatre the "Miles" found themselves in.I know these items had many uses and sizes across the Empire but i am specifically trying to pin down the "military" type.
I really fancy a Bronze one but would it be practible to cook with in the 1st cent AD.
Kevin
Kevin
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#2
The reason for tinning is simple. To cook your food in a brass patera is toxic. You need lead-free tinning on the inside to be food-safe, although silverplating will work as well. (or get a patera out of 325 sterling silver, of course).
Next would be the simple fact that most people use a patera made by Deepeeka, e.g. just one sample.

As for your size and look question I would simply say that there isn't a militairy style. Patera were found accross fortresses with different look, sizes, etc. Just don't take highly decorated, silver version for a soldiers marching pack. A bronze one will be perfect, although I would still have tinning on the inside.
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#3
Variations in patera from within the same Legion in 1st C.

First one from Usk (Burrium) and the other one was found in the well of the commander's house in the fortress at Isca. This second one is stamped Ala 1 Thracum.
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#4
Oops...photos won't load :roll:
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#5
Thanks for that
So no matter what size/style/metal composition, the Patera a Legionary had, it would have been "tinned" on the inside to prevent any toxic metalic poisoning?
Are all examples found to be tinned on the inside?
Kevin
Kevin
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#6
Get a grip Moi and post it....lol
Awaiting your pics
Kevin
Kevin
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#7
Can't say for sure on that Kevin, but whatever you go for, ensure the tinning is food grade. There a few floating about that have a high lead content.

Here are a couple from Oxford, perhaps a little to opretty for a soldier though.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=...=3&theater

Just incase you can't see the FB image.

[attachment=3994]418179_10150572525432132_679432131_9409710_1478441079_n.jpg[/attachment]


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
Less than 1 minute ago" />   
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#8
Thanks Byron
I like the little one on the right.
I will not be using the Patera i purchase but it will be only for display, no cooking, so if there were any originals in Bronze i would like to hear about them please.
All styles/composition appreciated as long as its from a military context.
Thanks in advance.
Wheres your pics Moi?
Kevin
Kevin
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#9
I think they were all bronze Kevin.
I'm not aware of any otherones(apart from th equality silver ones)
which could well have belonged to a senior officer, legate etc...

[attachment=3999]61610_430584402131_679432131_5637722_2093894_n.jpg[/attachment]

Or some of the decorated and enamaled ones too.


[attachment=3998]61610_430584392131_679432131_5637720_490524_n.jpg[/attachment]


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />   
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#10
Thanks again Byron
Material is definatly Bronze to go with....im now looking at if there were similar styles/sizes in the military...after all..a billy can is a billy can in any army.
So Bronze and keeping it pretty plain....please feel free to add to this
Kevin
Kevin
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#11
Was trying to find other pics but they must be on my laptop, sorry...Moi's ball! :mrgreen:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#12
I have several photos:

[Image: britm9.jpg]

[Image: britm10.jpg]

[Image: britm31.jpg]

[Image: largepatera.jpg]


Tinning looks like a modern fix to a problem we moderns have identified. I cook in a copper pot, but since I do this maybe 12 times a year, it will not harm me. Cook 3 times a day every day, well, I'm looking at some problems I think. Meh.
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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#13
Of course I have more photos (I have LOTS of photos!): of all kinds of things Smile

[Image: vindo7.jpg]

[Image: paterairon.jpg]

[Image: DSCF4119.jpg]

[Image: DSCF2909.jpg]
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
Reply
#14
Ok...I'll try to load mine again but it seems a bit pointless after Pauls patera fest; except they're II Aug so I thought Kevin might like them...(but then again, the thought it the XX VV were at Usk not the Second)
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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#15
Ok...I'll try to load mine again but it seems a bit pointless after Pauls patera fest; except they're II Aug so I thought Kevin might like them...(but then again, the thought it the XX VV were at Usk not the Second)

Ok...first Fatal Error...so I'll try one a t a time...
Moi Watson

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Merlot in one hand, Cigar in the other; body thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and screaming "WOO HOO, what a ride!
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