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Marketplace changes!!!!!!!1
#1
Looks good! Idea
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#2
I have been away for a bit and missed all the posts and counter posts from India.

But it is now harder to find things for sale. Genuine items from members, either second hand or new.

The market place area has been taken over by commercial sellers, either asking for help to develop inaccurate items, or advertising their wares. I appreciate RAT may have a roll to play in helping manufacturers develop ranges, but the current situation is not one of open and honest engagement. And the open market does a great job.

I believe the section needs another re think that produces less conflict.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#3
Hi all
I think the section still runs ok...if you want to find something for sale from a member you still can...re the advice on constructing items from suppliers,,,lets make that a seperate thread, though at the moment i dont think it disrupts the normal sales thread.
Kevin
Kevin
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#4
I can see John's point of view...and too often inexperienced members who really aren't gear "experts" are giving inaccurate advice to suppliers for prototypes. Perhaps the "product development" area could be for this, and this alone, or make it a private area with stipulations for having access.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#5
I am an inexperienced member myself, and i not dare to advice anyone. But the problem with this is only for the suppliers, that are risking their money developing products that could be inaccurate, and not for RAT members, that are still free to buy them or not, while the process is still enriching for everybody. Seeing people discuss the props can make you think about how they where built. What stipulations could be established? Who and how is going to be considered an "expert"?
Eduardo Vázquez
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#6
I agree with the educational part of it, in that it would help newer people become familiar with correct gear or techniques. However, this isn't just the seller's problem, it's also the buyer's. If someone isn't sure, and purchases an inaccurate helmet for example, that was produced based on bad advice, then everyone loses. Now that person has to replace or modify the helmet themself, and the reputation of the helmet as not being acceptable will of course spread. This will cause less sales for the company. It hurts everyone.

Some stipulations off of the top of my head could be: years as a roman reenactor, number of items accurately constructed, peer recomendation, academic in the field or Roman history...

It could be done. One other possibility is that the forum could be viewed by anyone, but only posted on by those who meet the qualifications.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#7
Quote:Some stipulations off of the top of my head could be: years as a roman reenactor, number of items accurately constructed, peer recomendation, academic in the field or Roman history...

It could be done. One other possibility is that the forum could be viewed by anyone, but only posted on by those who meet the qualifications.

Matt, this could be great, but i see it too difficult to work. How would you prove being an academic? Just by being an historian? Or an antiquity historian? Would someone check your cv? And what about all the non historians here that have an incredible knowledge on the subject? Peer recomendation leads to the influence of powerful groups, to appearance of lobbyes. Items constructed? You can have a vast knowledge about the item but be useless with a hammer. Years as a roman reenactor? Other thing difficult to prove. Being a reenactor in a unknow group in a far away country counts?
An really, the people filling this conditions would not be many, and most of them not willing to collaborate with suppliers... so this section of the marketplace would be dead.
But this is the humble point of view of a newby :grin:
Eduardo Vázquez
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#8
It's not hard to prove who is an academic around here. There are a handful of noted authors that participate on RAT who would work quite well.

For the non-historians with the oodles of knowledge, that can also be up to a peer review. If you are referring to a clique forming based on peers picking peers, really who cares? The only benefit would be that smart people are calling the shots on equipment. It's not like the rest of us "losers" would be left in the dark...we would benefit from that.

You are dismissing each of my points with opposites, and that makes no sense to me. The people with "vast knowledge" about an item would fit into the above, especially if they are useless with a hammer. The ones who are handy, well all the better.

Years as a Roman reenactor of all the items I listed is probably the EASIEST. I don't think you appreciate just how small this community is. There literally aren't any unknown groups.

And the entire purpose would be to have people who are willing to collaborate with suppliers. You don't need a large number of people doing it anyway...too many and nothing would get done.

It would work fine...but this is the humble point of view of someone not-so-new. 8-)
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#9
I think two sections would work.

For Sale (Non-business Users) and For Sale (Business Users).

Product development, advertising new items for sale etc. could all be put into the business user section. The personal stuff for sale could go in the non business users section.

It seems to work is most forums.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#10
Swordforum.com has something like that...seems to work.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#11
I'm not sure that I see any problems here in relation to, say, a year ago. As before, some vendors have sections to show their product, and members can ask for anything in the main section. The only new part is the 'new products' section.

What the difference is between 'business users' and 'non-business users' I'm not sure, can anyone explain? Do you perhaps refer to people wwho are mking a living from producing goods here, and those who are in it for the hobby?

All products that are advertised here are to be sold, aren't they? All discussion about replicas etc. is not placed here, but in the re-enactment and reconstruction section.
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#12
There is no reason to think that only academics giving advice to developers would eliminate the issue.
Seems there were serious problems before, and will be possibly in the future.
The info supplied to developers was not the issue.
So making it exclusive as to who was able to develope something, because they are
'Qualified' may be a smoke screen or an illusionary bandage.
I can think of some one who was in charge of a nations antiqities, and very qualified....
but many had low opinions of him!

I think it is needed for not only the developing manufacturer to make the effort
to adhere to the info supplied, but also, if people are less 'qualified' but are wanting something developed, they will not only need to ask for advice, and have it given freely, but also have a developer help them 'make it so'.

The exclusivity element you propose Magnus will leave quite a few people with
only the choice of buying what others develop.

Just my 2 cents.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#13
I agree with Byron.

Developers can listen to anyone they want, it's up to them to ask for references.
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#14
Indeed.

Getting back to the market place sections and sub sections, "For Sale" is now a sub category of the "Marketplace" under a list of commercial vendors, but above a range of catogories entitled "Product This", "Product That", And "More Products" (I may have got the titles wrong)which some commerical vendors use to advertise and ask for help, and others seemingly do not want to use. There is also a "Wanted Section" in there somewhere. The is also a "Market Place" section to the "Market Place" for things that do not fit in to any of the above sections and sub-sections of the "Market Place".

Great for librarians perhaps. And those who like reading the laws of cricket.

Classifieds for non-business users-: For Sale and Want ads for Non-Businesses.

Classifieds for business users:- A section where business users advertise products for sale, request help, annouce product development etc. etc.
John Conyard

York

A member of Comitatus Late Roman
Reconstruction Group

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.comitatus.net">http://www.comitatus.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.historicalinterpretations.net">http://www.historicalinterpretations.net
<a class="postlink" href="http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com">http://lateantiquearchaeology.wordpress.com
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#15
All suppliers and vendors need to understand that whatever interactions or arguments they have off-group need to be settled off-group, not archived, mediated and monitored by us moderators. The Moderator Staff of RAT are not to act as mediators or advisers for disputes relating to any products produced by others, or as a public forum for airing of those disputes. Nor do we advise individual members to engage in a similar discussion.

Thank you for your understanding in this difficult matter.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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