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Late Roman Army Grade/Rank List under Anastasius
#16
Quote:Thanks Renatus! Very interesting indeed. I agree with your view on Lydus and his work: from the list alone we can infer several lists combined into one. We see several tasks mixed with specialisms, some of which are very much comparable to e.g. Vegetius.

Indeed, and Vegetius was one of his sources.
Michael King Macdona

And do as adversaries do in law, -
Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
(The Taming of the Shrew: Act 1, Scene 2)
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#17
Sorry for the severe case of necromancy but a new edition of Ioannes Lydus on Powers or the Magistracies of the Roman State was published at the end of 2013, rather pricey at £90 though!
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#18
And as to the Perge fragments translation, any update on this? (I am really intrigued as to what these 'double-sized' units were).
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#19
No idea. Whose doing the research? I'm sure you can find out.
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#20
Quote:No idea. Whose doing the research? I'm sure you can find out.

Short memory there Evan? It's Prof. Fatih Onur doing the research.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#21
It is indeed! I would suggest contacting him direct to get an update on the state of hs research.
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#22
I have tried contacting him several times Francis without success so far.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#23
He's on my Facebook so I keep an eye out for any developments, but nothing seems forthcoming. I suspect that the Perge fragments have taken a back seat in his research and he has moved onto other things now.

For those interested who did not follow the original postings, the second article can be found here:

https://www.academia.edu/2898696/The_Mil...ary_Report

If you difficulties accessing the site, please PM me and I will email the article.

Also, the book is due for publication according to Academia in 2014:

https://www.academia.edu/4376305/_BOOK_M...du_Fermani


[BOOK] Monumentum Pergense. Anastasios’un Ordu Fermanı

by Fatih ONUR

""Bu çalışma, 30 yılı aşkın bir süre önce ele geçmiş bir yazıtı incelemektedir. Bu yazıt, Pamphylia’nın anakenti (metropolis) olan Perge’de yüzlerce parça halinde ele geçmiştir ve şu an Antalya müzesinde korunmaktadır. Yazıtın parçaları... more
Publisher: Arkeoloji ve Sanat Yayınları
Publication Date: 2014
Publication Name: GEPHYRA MONOGRAPHIES - VOLUME 3
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#24
Please see below for an important update re his research:

https://www.academia.edu/4376305/Monumen...rman%C4%B1
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#25
Interesting stuff! Shame we don't have a full english translation though...

Aside from the estimated number in the legion (1550-1600), the rank/grade list on pp61-63 is the meat here. What does 'kisi' mean? Anybody know Turkish? If it's the number of men of each grade in the legion, this gives us 20 ordinarii (ie centurions, giving a neat 80 men per century!*) but only 10 signiferi... And there's no mention of an aquilifer, or any other standard bearer for the whole unit.

Does Prof Onur reckon this is a comitatensis legion based on the address to the Magister Militum, or are there other indications? Based on the grades or ranks listed, it could as easily be a limitanei legion - they look very similar to the ones given on late Egyptian papyrii.

[Edit - * actually, how does he figure out the numbers in the legion? Adding all the 'kisi' figures together I get about 1245 including officers... :unsure: )
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#26
My meagre online skills indicate 'kisi' means 'one, person, individual'.

I have a Turkish friend who is a professer in the Lit Dept of Istanbul and I am going to contact her to see if she has the time to translate the article. If she does, I will report her translation here but she is not familiar with Roman history or military terms so it may not be accurate.

I believe Fatih Onur stated in the earlier articles that he believed that the unit was a high-ranking palatine legion and therefore reflects that unit's particular composition.
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#27
It is indeed a pity that the article's summary is in English whilst the rest of the document is in Turkish.

If Prof. Onur is correct in his belief that the inscriptions pertain to a Legio Palatina unit then that throw's up a whole range of questions as it's generally believed that the Palatine legions were smaller than the Comitatenis one's. It also throw's a curved ball at those who claim that the legion's at that date had been severely degraded in size, I would not have guessed that legions at around 500AD were still this size.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#28
I look forward to Rance's subsequent translation as I can think of no one better qualified to translate both the Greek and Onur's work.
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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#29
Is Prof. Rance going to be translating Onur's work then Francis?
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#30
Yes, he mentions it at the end of the English summary in the article. Very excited!
Francis Hagan

The Barcarii
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