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Crests and Roman Soldiers
#16
"With most Montefortino type helmets the crest which was a horses tail would have been very easy to install."

Something of a factoid there I think. Certainly most Montefortino helmets had a hole for the insertion of a pin and the six helmets shown on the Domitius Ahenobarbus relief all have flowing crests attached which are assumed to be horsehair, but to jump from there to saying that all Montefortinos had horsehair crests is going a bit too far I think. I also think it is highly unlikely that all Caesar's soldiers would have been wearing Montefortinos. The Domitius Ahenobarbus relief seems to show a variety of helmet types and I think Caesar's soldiers would have been wearing a mixture of Montefortino 'C' and 'D', Coolus 'B', Port, Agen and Attic (one of his legions had previously served in Asia Minor with Pompey and will have picked up locally produced kit whilst there) helmets.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers. :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

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#17
Also the writings of Polybius refer to a crown of black or scarlet feathers with 3 long straight feathers above to a length of 1 cubit (45cm).
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#18
The situation is even more interesting when looking at Late Roman helment crests as it does not appear that any of the Late Roman helmets found so far have any crest attachments, apart from the ones that have metallic crests already built into the helmet. This despite the copious Late Roman artwork of all types that shows troops with helmets that have non-metallic crests.

One theory put forward is that the crests were fixed to a fabric strip that was then glued onto the top of the helmet. If they were damaged all that needed to happen was to soak off the strip and then apply a new one.
Adrian Coombs-Hoar
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#19
Ah, no, an Intercisa in the Augst museum has a slot cut in the ridge. The museum interprets this as used for a crest. I am mobile at the moment so cannot provide links or pics of my own feathered crest for the intercisa, based on the Augst system....
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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#20
In fact Ammianus Marcellinus mentions horsehair and other crests several times in his work dated to the late 4th century AD.
Paul Elliott

Legions in Crisis
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/17815...d_i=468294

Charting the Third Century military crisis - with a focus on the change in weapons and tactics.
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#21
A new article by Christian Miks talks about the abundance of crests on late roman helmets. There are many known metal examples, which were fastened to the slots that were cut into the ridge. The crests could be affixed later if required. This was not just for Intercisa helmets, but also the Berkasovo type helmets with the long narrow cheak pieces.
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
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#22
Quote: A new article by Christian Miks talks about the abundance of crests on late roman helmets. There are many known metal examples, which were fastened to the slots that were cut into the ridge. The crests could be affixed later if required.
Interesting! Reference? A copy, perhaps? :wink:

Quote:This was not just for Intercisa helmets, but also the Berkasovo type helmets with the long narrow cheak pieces.
The Berkasovo had the broad cheek pieces, the Intercisa had the narrow ones.
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#23
What about the Gallic A, would it have had a crest on it? I have seen only a few pictures of re-enactors wearing a Gallic A with a crest. There is only one helmet in the helmet database, the one from Worms, that shows what looks like a crest knob.
Joshua B. Davis

Marius Agorius Donatus Minius Germanicus
Optio Centuriae
Legio VI FFC, Cohors Flavus
[url:vat9d7f9]http://legvi.tripod.com[/url]

"Do or do not do, their is no try!" Yoda
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#24
For late roman helmets, the Budapest helmet certainly have buckles for attaching a crest. I am not sure that the Berkasovo ones were intended to have a crest, at least there seems to be no buckles or slots for that purpose...
Virilis / Jyrki Halme
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#25
Quote:I am not sure that the Berkasovo ones were intended to have a crest, at least there seems to be no buckles or slots for that purpose...

In fact the opposite is true. If you get a hold of the newly released article by Dr.Christian MIKS from RGZM in Germany he discusses the high number of Berkasovo helmet that actually had slots for crest, or creases in the ridge indicative of crests. The Koblenz finds had a high number of helmets that were ready for crest or had them.

Also when looking at different angles of images of the Augsburg helmet, it appears to have spots/ slots in the ridge for a crest attachment (likely added like the Guteman late roman helmet with the crest attached).

It appears that that the iconography of the later roman period where most helmets had crest may be more true than not.....
Markus Aurelius Montanvs
What we do in life Echoes in Eternity

Roman Artifacts
[Image: websitepic.jpg]
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#26
Miks has a book on helmets too?
Is this available to us plebs?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
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#27
Quote: What about the Gallic A, would it have had a crest on it? I have seen only a few pictures of re-enactors wearing a Gallic A with a crest. There is only one helmet in the helmet database, the one from Worms, that shows what looks like a crest knob.

The three bronze Gallic A type helmets from the Moro Boti shipwreck (Mallorca) all have 'double tunnel' crest support fittings and large 'U' shaped loops fitted to the front of the bowl for securing crests.
[Image: MallorcaGallicA.jpg]
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#28
Thanks Ade! That fits with what I want to do to mine perfectly! Cool
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#29
That's what I did to my bronze 'A' too!
[Image: 9192.jpg]
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#30
Thanks Ade!!!
Joshua B. Davis

Marius Agorius Donatus Minius Germanicus
Optio Centuriae
Legio VI FFC, Cohors Flavus
[url:vat9d7f9]http://legvi.tripod.com[/url]

"Do or do not do, their is no try!" Yoda
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