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Show here your Sarmatian warrior impression
#46
Apologies if this has already been asked (and also for resurrecting a post from such a long time ago!)

Alanus: what do you feel about the idea that Sarmatians and Parthians wore "mail and plate" armour? I have heard people refer to it, and apparently there was a paper written in Russian by Simonenko, but I haven't been able to track it down, or find any pictures.

Great reconstructions here by the way! Big Grin
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#47
Hailog, Daryush

A good question, but I don't know if I can answer it properly. I have Simonenko's book but not his articles. He was perhaps the "first" authority and he correctly linked the Arosi and Alans to a new wave of post-Sauromatian culture.

We know that late-on Sarmatians/Alans wore chainmail, and I don't see why they would not have used combinations of various armor types-- scale, lamellar, and plate-- within a single set of armor that might have also included mail. I have always wanted to create an armored tunic of both scale and plate. In Europe, lamellar seems to arrive later; but maybe I'm wrong because maybe it has been found in Duro Europa and elsewhere.

Right now, I'm awaiting a new Roxolani spangenhelm just like the ones pictured on Trajan's Column. Hopefully, Greg Kulig will have it finished by our Legio III gathering on May 1st in Kennebunk, ME.

Armor was and is expensive, and I doubt anyone just tossed out dated armor for something new. It got passed to a new wearer or was incorporated within something new. No apologies needed. I welcome other thoughts on this subject. And yes, this is an old thread, but then again I not very newSmile I'm like old armor.
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
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#48
Drōd Alanus

Thanks for the reply. Although based on what I know from Middle Eastern armour, there seems to be quite a large lag in time between being able to make plated mail armour (theoretically, they could have appeared as soon as its components did, that being, chain mail, and lamellar plates) and it actually appearing. Although a separate scale cuirass / coat on top of a chain-mail hauberk is quite likely and was used in Sassanian (and maybe Parthian) Iran too. One interpretation (although not my preferred one) of the Dura lancer graffito is a chain-mail shirt with lamellar plates embedded into the weave of the chainmail.

You may well have seen these pictures, I am not sure where they come from as the site I found it on was in Russian though (and, unfortunately, I didn't save the link)

[Image: armourf.jpg]

Ooh, good luck with the new helmet. Looking forward to seeing pictures when you get it. Now we need to get you mounted and shooting at a gallop too :mrgreen:
Nadeem Ahmad

Eran ud Turan - reconstructing the Iranian and Indian world between Alexander and Islam
https://www.facebook.com/eranudturan
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#49
Quote:Right now, I'm awaiting a new Roxolani spangenhelm just like the ones pictured on Trajan's Column.

I would very much like to see that, too!
------------
[Image: regnumhesperium.png]
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#50
Daryush & Kai,

I wouldn't be surprised if combo-armor has a long history. On both sides of Sarmatian lands, we see similar hybrid styles worn by Sassanians and Chinese, the Sassanians into chainmail and scale, the Chinese into various forms of plate. If either of you have seen the film "Red Cliff," you would have seen armor exceedingly similar to that found on the Orlat Battle Plaque. John Woo took liberties on the story (actually from the ancient novel, Romance of Three Kingdoms), but the armor and swords in the movie are faithful to history. We view lamellar, plate, and scale combined, obviouly based upon ancient Chinese illustrations.

The Russian illustrations above look more "western," like Sassanian. It must have existed, the artist not into "fantasy."

And yes, I can't wait to see the Roxolani helmet as well. I searched for a decade trying to locate something that looked original. It wasn't out there. I sent photos of several "takes" on the Trajan Column helmets, including those from the book "The Sarmatians." I was delighted when Greg accepted the challenge, since it's not a fancy helmet, not at all like the intricate work he does. Most of his stuff is done for museums, and I was just a grunt who wanted something accurate.
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#51
[attachment=4899]In-biotoop-01.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=4900]In-biotoop-02.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=4901]In-biotoop-03.jpg[/attachment]

Okay here I am. I couldn't resist doing some (quick) photoshopping using pictures of mine from Mongolia, to put thing in their context.

I borrowed the bow and the bow case from someone else...


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />    Less than 1 minute ago" />   
Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#52
Quote:Okay here I am. I couldn't resist doing some (quick) photoshopping using pictures of mine from Mongolia, to put thing in their context.

Just lovely. Wonderful kit, Folkert!
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#53
Great photos! The pelta looks spot on.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#54
Hello, Folkert!

Nice impression. Maybe this thing will catch on before I crap off!
Nice akinakes case. And is that a Grozer #2 Magyar bow? I have one in 45#, and a good shooter.

Looks like you're wearing the new Roxolani Sarmatian helmet made by Suhel. How do you like it? It looks great. :-D
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply
#55
Thanks guys,
The akinakes case I made after a find from the altai region.
Drawings are here
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...&id=316878
First I figured it to be a Sarmatian scaberd because of the suspencion system,later I found out it's a rather early find from the Altai...

The bow is the Roman recurve from Grozer that I borowed from someone.

More pictures are here http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.html?fu...&id=315302
Folkert van Wijk
Celtic Auxilia, Legio II Augusta.
With a wide interrest for everything Celtic BC
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#56
Great gear and very clever photoshopping. How did you construct your pelta? I have an urge to build one.
Pecunia non olet
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#57
Like I already said on FB - nice kit Folkert! And great pictures!
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#58
The discussion about Iaziges and Sarmatians has now been moved to a new thread:
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/25-alli...zages.html
_________________________________
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR: Forum rules
FECTIO Late Roman Society
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
[Image: artgroepbutton.jpg]
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#59
Hi,
can somebody tell me if i can use this helmet for a Sarmatian archer?
[attachment=6335]IMG_0716low_2013-02-02.jpg[/attachment]


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
Less than 1 minute ago" />   
TiTvS Philippvs/Filip
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legioxi.be">www.legioxi.be
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#60
Hello, Sutoris

The helmet looks very suitable for a Sarmatian archer, a nice early looking spangenhelm. It has no nasal, which is ideal. Nasals tend to interfere with "line of sight" when aiming and shooting.

Best of luck. Smile
Alan J. Campbell

member of Legio III Cyrenaica and the Uncouth Barbarians

Author of:
The Demon's Door Bolt (2011)
Forging the Blade (2012)

"It's good to be king. Even when you're dead!"
             Old Yuezhi/Pazyrk proverb
Reply


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