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Iron Phrygian Helmet
#1
Just curious, would it be acceptable for a Thracian/Dacian (circa 3-4th century BC) reenactor to wear an Iron Phrgygian helmet with a bronze finish? Or would that be Farb? Are all surviving examples of Pyrygian style helmets bronze?
Todd Franks

"The whole race is madly fond of war, high spirited and quick to battle, but otherwise straightforward and not of evil character." - Strabo on the Celts
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#2
There are several ways to impart a bronze-like appearance to steel. Whether that would work would depend on what the other people you are working with say. Is it authentic? No, not entirely. But if the ancients painted their helmets (and some evidently did), and you painted the steel, who would know what the metallurgist would report, and why would that make any difference? It's a matter of where you set the guide line you follow. Some say one thing, some another.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#3
Quote:Just curious, would it be acceptable for a Thracian/Dacian (circa 3-4th century BC) reenactor to wear an Iron Phrgygian helmet with a bronze finish? Or would that be Farb? Are all surviving examples of Pyrygian style helmets bronze?

Iron 'Phrygian' helmets certainly existed around that time and place - the most famous coming from the so-called 'Philip' tomb, but one or two other iron 'Phrygian helmets, late 4C-early 3 C also exist - such as this one from Marvinci.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#4
The question is,shouldn't these helmets be identified with another name? I mean,they are clearly a distinct type. They have a solid "crest" instead of a hollow and rounded one. They are also constructed of seven pieces with bands riveted all around the helmets,the bowl made of two parts etc. And although there seem to have been phrygian helmets with smaller cheek pieces,the most common type is the one with the face/mask. Maybe it is noteworthy that of these phrygian helmets i haven't seen one iron example,wheras of the three or i can remeber now of this "other" type,the two are iron. The answer could be that they preffered to work smaller pieces in iron, and make helmets of several pieces.
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
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#5
I'm an amateur blacksmith, so take this for what it's worth. Iron blooms are not very big, most of the time, so to make, say, an entire helmet bowl from one piece would involve forge welding more than one piece into a larger piece. I don't know exactly when forge welding came into play, but it wasn't at the very earliest part of the Iron Age. That's why long swords, one piece armor breastplates, etc., came about at later times, and/or were very expensive. It would be much simpler to make a helmet from multiple pieces and rivet them together.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#6
And this is exactly what has happened with those "other" helmets that some call "late attic" helmets. The consist of usually seven pieces,some of them stripes to hold the whole helmet together with rivets.
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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