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Spolas (...thorax ek dermatos...)
#31
Dithrambus,the whole point of this thread,appart from showing off something i have put a lot of work into,is to inspire and guide people on how to make it themselves! So,you have the option to save a lot of money and start working on your thorax yourself. I think i have illustrated the steps here very clearly and i'm willing to help you with any questions,and you don't really need to have such great leather working skills. This was my first big leather working project!

Lysandros,thanks for the comment. As i said,if i have inspired you,that you already have a nice spolas, this is my greatest joy!
from my experience in making it,i can say the measurement is everything! The execution is more time consuming perhaps, and creates some calluses on your hands,but without the necessary care on measurements,the final product won't be as it should,and the work will be in vain.
And of course,the base of everything is [img]research[/img]. Others in here must have done more research in literature,and the quest for the identification of the matterial, but i can say that i have been studying every single depiction of the t&y cuirass that i have found of some range if time for years, and i have tried to transfer some of the basic characteristics that are more or less common in the majority of them into my own reconstruction,even if i didn't strictly follow a specific depiction. After all,i think the purpose is to try to capture the feel of it. Especially since our actual artifacts of these cuirasses number to zero! Cry
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#32
I was actually kidding about you taking orders Smile , you have certainly inspired me and I am sure many others to attempt this themselves!
_____________________________________________________
Mark Hayes

"The men who once dwelled beneath the crags of Mt Helicon, the broad land of Thespiae now boasts of their courage"
Philiades

"So now I meet my doom. Let me at least sell my life dearly and have a not inglorius end, after some feat of arms that shall come to the ears of generations still unborn"
Hektor, the Iliad
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#33
Count me as inspired as well! I want one too! Big Grin
Craig Bellofatto

Going to college for Massage Therapy. So reading alot of Latin TerminologyWink

It is like a finger pointing to the moon. DON\'T concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory before you!-Bruce Lee

Train easy; the fight is hard. Train hard; the fight is easy.- Thai Proverb
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#34
Yep, me, too. Inspired, that is. I'll be using linen, probably pretty heavy weight, and quilting by hand. That's gonna take a while. Oh, well, so be it. Not everything that's good comes quick and easy, right? :wink:
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#35
At last!!! Someone will try quilting! Eagerly waiting for that!
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#36
Quote:Yep, me, too. Inspired, that is. I'll be using linen, probably pretty heavy weight, and quilting by hand. That's gonna take a while. Oh, well, so be it. Not everything that's good comes quick and easy, right? :wink:

I have made a few quilted patches of linen (each measuring around 20cm by 20cm) of varying layers (10-15) and with stitching set at varying closeness (i.e. some were tightly spaced and some were loose). My tightest stitching was about 1.5cm apart and the loosest was about 4cm apart. They were all quilted in a square, grid-like pattern. The process is not very fun, as you can expect, but it is not impossible. The patches are somewhat rigid but far more flexible (even the most closest stitched) than others have touted. When tested against a bow and arrow the quilted patches perform moderately at best. There is no advantage that I can discern.

I also made and tested a quilted and stuffed test patch about 45cm by 45cm. The stuffing was sheep's wool. I also tested this against a bow and arrow. It did far worse than the non-stuffed quilted patch. It seems this type of armor would have been good for protection against slashing blows, but not piercing ones.
Scott B.
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#37
I wasn't thinking of stuffing the quilted areas, just stitching up the multiple layers so they'd stay still while being worn. I'm considering more than one pattern of quilting on the same garment...perhaps vertical "tubes" on the sides and belly, and diamond shaped across the chest. What say you all? I figure about a million stitches or something like that. Sigh.

Along the edges of the pteruges, I guess some kind of felt edging over the linen, or a contrasting color of linen tape. Might add some scales on the right side someday later. But I don't want to hijack the thread. When I've started, I'll make a new thread.

Back to you, G.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#38
Quote:I wasn't thinking of stuffing the quilted areas, just stitching up the multiple layers so they'd stay still while being worn. I'm considering more than one pattern of quilting on the same garment...perhaps vertical "tubes" on the sides and belly, and diamond shaped across the chest. What say you all? I figure about a million stitches or something like that. Sigh.

Along the edges of the pteruges, I guess some kind of felt edging over the linen, or a contrasting color of linen tape. Might add some scales on the right side someday later. But I don't want to hijack the thread. When I've started, I'll make a new thread.

Back to you, G.

In my opinion quilting really does nothing but complicate things. From my experiences it does absolutely nothing to add to the protective qualities of linen armor, and is far less effective than laminated linen armor (aside from being far more time consuming to produce). Both quilted and quilted-stuffed armor seem to be far less effective than simple laminated armor. It wouldn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that glued layers of linen would make effective armor.
Scott B.
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#39
Well, that's the argument from the beginning, isn't it? Some vases show what could be quilting, some don't. I guess until they open that hermetically sealed Time Capsule, we won't really know.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#40
Surely the nearest comparable item is a medieval gambeson, they are laminated layers of linen, that are sewn into tubes to compress them, if you have enough layers of linen these things become rock hard, yet still absorbant to help negate the energy of a thrusting blow, if a medieval soldier was happy to wear one of them going up against longbows and two handed axes, then I would have thought a hoplite would be happy wearing one going up against thrusting spears.

What effect does just glueing the layers produce? I would imagine it makes it stiff but also brittle and that running around in it would make it sweaty and limp.
Stuart
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#41
Quote:Surely the nearest comparable item is a medieval gambeson, they are laminated layers of linen, that are sewn into tubes to compress them, if you have enough layers of linen these things become rock hard, yet still absorbant to help negate the energy of a thrusting blow, if a medieval soldier was happy to wear one of them going up against longbows and two handed axes, then I would have thought a hoplite would be happy wearing one going up against thrusting spears.

I don't know how comfortable the typical hoplite would be wearing something as stifling as a gambeson is in the summer Mediterranean heat! I've worn a linothorax in high summer heat for more than 3 hours and withstood it fairly comfortably.

Quote:What effect does just glueing the layers produce? I would imagine it makes it stiff but also brittle and that running around in it would make it sweaty and limp.

Laminated linen is stiff but has a great deal of flexibility. It is far from brittle. I have test patches and a linothorax that are around five years old and they are practically the same now as they were when they were brand new. Laminating the layers instead of quilting (without stuffing) offers more resistance because of the glue. This may not seem like much but it actually makes quite a big difference.
Scott B.
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#42
I appreciate the weather is not as hot in england as other parts, but I frequently manage to wear a linen layer, a wool tight layer, another leather/wool padding layer then a chain mail shirt, and the helmet in my avatar picture which is very hot and stifling as well as having trousers on in 30 degree heat for up to a couple of hours at a time and I dont find that a problem, I would love to be able to wear a sleevless chiton with no trousers and just a gambeson it would be so light and breezy in comparison 8)
But I agree all the depictions look laminated as apposed to padded to me.
Stuart
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#43
Heat should not be considered a factor...bronze cuirasses were the norm in body armour before the late 6th century. If one can wear full bronze quirass in Greece,then nothing else can be a hindrance!!! To this add leg and arm protection and above all a closed helmet,which is like putting your head in the oven,but it can be bearable. It is then orgasmic when you pull up and you feel the cool air on your face (cool no matter what's the temperature)!
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#44
Climate is irrelevant. Even the heaviest armour is no more uncomfortable in hot weather than heavy clothing. Enclosed helmets are the only item that can cause problems.
Author: Bronze Age Military Equipment, Pen & Sword Books
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#45
I agree. Well,i haven't worn full bronze plate armour,but the layered leather cuirass was nothing like the corinthian helmet. The chiton and opened sandals though are very nice! And because i have tested it, not wearing underwear like the art universally show, can be another relieving factor! :mrgreen:
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
Reply


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