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Calling all armchair generals! Boudica's Last Stand.
(11-16-2016, 12:03 AM)MonsGraupius Wrote: I've read there is evidence of burning in London, St.Albans, Colchester and maybe Silchester.

Is there anything further north?

Not as far as I know.

Only the destruction evidence from Colchester can be fairly securely dated to the revolt. Evidence from London is extensive, but not completely certain. St Albans, as we discussed before, shows only minor damage, which might be thought accidental if we didn't have Tacitus's explicit mention.

Traces of burnt debris found between London and Staines were related to the revolt by Nic Fuentes, but this is impossible to confirm. The evidence from Silchester remains 'out there' - it's possible that the burnt debis from the site relates to the rebuilding of the town on a different axis some time in the later 1st century.
Nathan Ross
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(11-16-2016, 01:08 AM)Nathan Ross Wrote:
(11-16-2016, 12:03 AM)MonsGraupius Wrote: I've read there is evidence of burning in London, St.Albans, Colchester and maybe Silchester.

Is there anything further north?

Not as far as I know.

Only the destruction evidence from Colchester can be fairly securely dated to the revolt. Evidence from London is extensive, but not completely certain. St Albans, as we discussed before, shows only minor damage, which might be thought accidental if we didn't have Tacitus's explicit mention.
Thanks.

Somewhere I read about a Roman fort being burnt down, but I can't remember which one, so I can't look at dating evidence.
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Thanks for the excuse to look at burning. 

The CS theory builds in the idea that the weapon and quern deposits at Hunsbury Hill, Northampton might be associated with the defeat of rebellion. The Fort was burnt down, and this is interpreted as vitrification. Attempting, and failing, to get a date for the burning event I came across this report from the local Landscape Archaeology Group (CLASP) which is well done and nicely presented;

 http://claspweb.org.uk/wp-content/upload...ampton.pdf

They do a similar job on the Castle Yard/Castle Dykes features. This follows the accepted RCHM interpretation of Medieval (Castle Dykes) and Prehistoric (Castle Yard) going to a bit of extra effort to kill off an Iron Age or Roman interpretation of  Castle Dykes with the phrase;

"It is difficult to advance a sound argument for earlier activity at Castle Dykes than the Anglo-Saxon period"

http://claspweb.org.uk/wp-content/upload...stone1.pdf

Also good to see a combined analysis of the Hillforts recognising the river system confluence at Arbury Hill recognised, an observation/theory first advanced on this thread I believe....

http://www.claspweb.org.uk/large_pdf_fil...report.pdf


fascinating area and features even if not Rebellion associated. The "Great Way" is referenced a couple of times in these pieces, described as a trackway starting in the Welsh Marches and going at least as far as Hunsbury. Does anyone know of any papers or mapping regarding this route? I think I have heard it referred to as the "Salt Way" before which I took to mean it had an association with Cheshire.

139,859
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(11-16-2016, 09:54 AM)John1 Wrote: Attempting, and failing, to get a date for the burning event I came across this report from the local Landscape Archaeology Group

They appear to date the fire to before 250BC! A little early for our purposes...

Some nice maps and plans though - thanks.
Nathan Ross
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Going to have to trek back through all the original papers now..... second phase defences began c250 BC and occupied until the end of the first millennium, but all this smacks of what was written in early, pre-C14 dating, days so not out of the net yet.
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(11-16-2016, 11:24 AM)John1 Wrote: all this smacks of what was written in early, pre-C14 dating, days so not out of the net yet.

Maybe - I got the impression that the second defences were built over or through the earlier ones, which had been destroyed by fire. So the fire must have been before c.250BC, and certainly before the Roman occupation, unless the second defences could be dated to the post-Roman period. So tying the fire to the events of AD61 is a bit of a stretch... But, as you say, all these ideas are subject to revision!
Nathan Ross
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(11-16-2016, 09:54 AM)John1 Wrote: Thanks for the excuse to look at burning. 

The CS theory builds in the idea that the weapon and quern deposits at Hunsbury Hill, Northampton might be associated with the defeat of rebellion. ...

"It is difficult to advance a sound argument for earlier activity at Castle Dykes than the Anglo-Saxon period"
Thanks - you had me worried (I'd just written up something on the basis there was no burning in the North).

but the burning at Silchester is interesting. Having burnt the Triinovantes colony and London, the next obvious move is south to prevent re-enforcements arriving. The Thames is presumably blocked at London (or if crossed the tidal part could prevent easy retreat), so a crossing near Wallingford would be the simplest way over leading to Silchester.

You are then in a naturally hilly area.
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Happy New Year...... anyone still here?

Bing Maps has some nice oblique aerials of the putative camp at Church Stowe (SP 61797 57204) lovely round corners, but who knows?

   


   


   

157044
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(01-09-2017, 01:54 PM)John1 Wrote: Bing Maps has some nice oblique aerials of the putative camp at Church Stowe (SP 61797 57204) lovely round corners, but who knows?

What size is the putative camp?
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Google says about 100m-ish. Overlays show the southern side is the same as the short side of both Castle Dykes and Castle Yard. the East and West sides may extend further north beyond the hedge line but I've seen nowt on the photos or on site to confirm that.

   

Magic give a south side of this feature as 130m, same as North side of Castle Dykes and West side of Castle Yard
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A cohort would be cramped here.
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maybe so but plenty of the same size or smaller on page 12 of  Welfare and Swan.
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(01-09-2017, 01:54 PM)John1 Wrote: Happy New Year...... anyone still here?

Bing Maps has some nice oblique aerials of the putative camp at Church Stowe (SP 61797 57204) lovely round corners, but who knows?

157044

Interesting, but unless it's just one corner the size is only a couple of hectares which means at most 2000 men. It could be the right size for a reconnaissance unit but it's on a slope which is an unusual place
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Hi Mike and Kavan, (just the three of us left it would seem),

I see two corners, the west one is a little obscured by the stream runs, but the stream diversion is obvious. The forward slope position does seem a little odd. However it is in a very distinct topographic location. It covers and fills the low point of the ridge between Castle Dykes and Weedon Hill which is the only weak point on the ridge in terms of slope angle. It also effectively blocks the dead ground of the gully leading up to Castle Dykes to the south. I only noticed it because of these two topographic problems for the defenders, and some features of this nature in that position would be the obvious solution.

Staying with Castle Dykes it would appear the Lord of Stow (Northamptonshire) was Nicholas de Seagrave (jnr) who was Marshall of England. We know in 1310 he was crenulating his gaff in Barton Seagrave so it may be plausible that he was re-inhabiting/beefing up Castle Dykes at the time. Of the two moated enclosures at Barton Seagrave (in the world famous Wicksteed Park, where swings and slides were invented) one seems to be a square motte so not raised, that might account for the central circular motte at Castle Dykes not being raised. Seagrave was executed at Pontefract in 1321/22 following the Battle of Boroughbridge having thrown his weight behind Lancaster. This sudden, dishonourable demise with no male heir might account for the lack of info we have on the site, maybe?

Maybe the local landscape archaeology group CLASP has chased down this Seagrave link rather more?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Seagrave

as for "which means at most 2000 men"  I am fine with that. 2k there, 2k at Castle Dykes, 2k and Castle Yard, 2k and Stowe Lodge Woods (800m East of Castle Yard) and the remainders on Weedon Hill, seems like a great total and a great defensive distribution, (cue "it has to be a single large camp" from someone Wink )

158092
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(01-13-2017, 08:55 AM)John1 Wrote: (cue "it has to be a single large camp" from someone Wink )

Yep! [Image: smile.png]

What you're finding here might be Roman, but it still looks like some sort of fortified hilltop position, rather than the marching camp(s) of an army... I don't see Paulinus constructing a defensive position, and nothing in the sources suggests it. But, of course, we've been over all this several times before!
Nathan Ross
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