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Muscled Cuirass
#16
Ave, Matt,
FINALLY!!!!! Some one who has gotten the Cuirass correct!!!!! Big Grin You've got a future making those cuirasses if you want it. Please let me know how much you charge as it would be worth a trip out to your place from Dayton, Ohio for measurements and fittings. I think that I would have you make just the front and back halves as I plan to follow Dr. Travis Clark's idea of embossed leather shoulder harnesses. You can either P.M. me or just answer on the board.
Fabulous job Big Grin D D D D D D
Salve,
Larry Mager a.k.a. Vitruvius
Larry A. Mager
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#17
Well thanks Larry- coming all the way from Dayton is a hell of a compliment. I rather like Travis' idea about the leather shoulder 'flaps' (really gotta find that proper term for those things) too if only for esthetics- but then metal is appropriate if you look at the iron cuirass from Corfu (picture in one of the last posts): link from old RAT
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#18
Top Job Matt , i reckon the leather bits are called the Yoke :wink: I too am having a iron cuirass made here for my sacred band impression ,Like yours but im having bronze nipples inset in mine for perkyness :lol:
Hannibal ad portas ! Dave Bartlett . " War produces many stories of fiction , some of which are told until they are believed to be true." U S Grant
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#19
That makes sense Dave, but I just know I read somewhere of a more 'scientific' title- like the cheekguards of a helmet are formally called 'prognathids'. For the life of me though, I can't remember what it was or where I saw it. And of course the nipples have to be different- I recall reading of silver ones on a bronze cuirass, and certainly bronze on iron works Wink
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#20
I just found out that a beautiful bronze cuirass in the BM is listed as weighing 7.25lbs- so it's larger or thicker than the one Dave Michaels reported, but still must be relatively thin...
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#21
I think I have photos somewhere at home of it....I was thinking I had seen one that looke fairly substantial....
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#22
Well they all do, but that's largely because of the rolled and flared neck and arm areas- makes them look rather thicker than they are. The math says a thickness of around 0.8-0.85mm is correct for the mass...
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#23
By the way, the word for the shoulder guards should be "epomides" (????????)
And really great stuff. Indeed you have aproached the ancient style(not too muscled) more than anything i have seen. And of course it's mush more difficult than any stylized six-pack!
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#24
Quote:Well they all do, but that's largely because of the rolled and flared neck and arm areas- makes them look rather thicker than they are. The math says a thickness of around 0.8-0.85mm is correct for the mass...

Yes, same with some helmets.
But all the same my favourite muscle curiass is one with subtle definition....
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#25
Oh excellent Giannis- it's so nice to finally have a proper term instead of just 'shoulder flaps' LOL Thanks!
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#26
Beautiful, Matt. I'll parrot what a lot of others have said--this is one of the first repros I've seen with the "feel" or the originals.

Quote:Once I have more specifics worked out and when I get to trying a true copper alloy piece, I'll definitely take lots of 'in-process' photos possibly for a paper on the project. In simple terms though, the 'shrinking' I'm meaning is just reverse dishing- look at the abdomen: the right side is very hammermarked as you can see, while the left is still 'bulging'- I hammered (from the front) in the clefts for the various muscle definition points with a raising hammer on edge (a narrow cross pein would do the same thing), and over slightly convex WOOD form

My young friend Aurora has reached the same conclusion about greaves that you have about the muscle thorax--I wonder if the two of you are on to something about Greek metal forming?

I really should post her first pair here--I have the photos somewhere.
Qui plus fait, miex vault.
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#27
Matt If you want Phosphour bronze, you gotta think outside of the box :wink:
I happen to live a few hours away from the Sabien Cymbal plant (rock gods know this place well)
They carry it and aren't afraid to sell it in smaller quantities, providing you make nice with them.

I made my prototype out of it (P-bronze) because I actually had some kicking around. ( I think I posted it here a while back?)
Its not fully planished, but was recently worn onstage for Antony & Cleopatra (made the scale corselet as well )

I may have the guy's email address kicking around somewhere

PS - Good job on the raising of the abdominal section... and you are right about the current trend to dish them typically with air hammers. It is crazy how fast they can knock them out.
Shrinking metal/compressing over a form/raising is actually a intermediate part of metal working... part of the core knowledgebase.
Having said that, I only got it down at about year 7 of 11 :roll:
You need a specific type of hammer (raising hammer) to keep the energy from going out in all directions, and a round under-form to act as an under stake.
Once you get it down, it actually can go quite fast.
One tip is to use allot of light blows, and to stop thinking of your hammer arm as your arm, rather, lock your elbow to your side and imagine it is an air hammer with quick-light-perfectly placed blows.
It is kind of freaky to watch the lines develop.
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
<a class="postlink" href="http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi">http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi
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#28
That's a wild idea- I'd have never thought a manufacturer would sell materials, and from 'How It's Made' I thought Sabien cast its cymbal blanks, so wouldn't have ever thought them a source of sheet...

I actually didn't use a raising hammer, although I can see how one would do the job- just my regular smithing hammer; it eliminated the need to planish all the lines a raising hammer can create- and the wood form over the domed metal one I believe assisted in that respect as well. Since the metal is soft and the shape being sought is fairly minimal (not raising a Norman helm or anything Wink ), I wouldn't have thought raising would have been so useful- clearly it was since your piece is very nice Phil Big Grin Funny though that Antonius is a biiiit too big for it LOL
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#29
Thanks, and right back at you!!
Yea, he is a 6'3" monster of no small girth... I made it for myself 5'11" 180#, and had to "pull it out on the sides (and other areas) to accomodate Confusedhock:

The raising hammer can cause pocks, but it gives phenominal monodirectional control over the movement of the material. I swear I can see the metal actually move in a plastic sense at times.

Sabien still presses some of their lower end cymbals. I just sent out a casual probe about the possibility of bronze sheet, and won in a big way.
The Manager's name is "Nort".. a nickname because he has a Norton Motorcycle.
Q. ARTORIVS CORVINVS
aka: Phillip Vautour
"Rome is but a wilderness of tigers, and tigers must prey."
<a class="postlink" href="http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi">http://rubicon.dyndns.org/legioxxi
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#30
Ave, Quintus Artorius,
Might I please trouble you for the website and address for the Cymbal Company? That way I can get bronze to have my musculata made by our colleague.
P.M. me so as not to tie up the thread.
Thanks,
Salve,
Vitruvius
Larry A. Mager
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