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Segmentata Advice
#1
Hello all,

This is my first post here. I've been reading this forum for quite a while, but just now decided to post.

I have been looking a suit of Lorica Segmentata for quite some time now. At first I was rash and I bought a cheap suit, it was terrible and I had sent it back... Aside from being way to big, all of the leather straps and fittings were placed wrong(None of the shoulder/girdle sections could overlap). I ended up sending it back. This was all before I discovered this wonderfull site! Anywho im looking to get some advice before I make another purchase. I was looking at the Deepeeka suit and wondering if I could get some comments on it. My worry is that the girdle plates will be to large. I have about a 42 chest and im about 180 lbs.

I have also heard a few people talk about modifying the plates. Is this done by cutting a few inches off and re-riviting the brass fittings back to thier respective places? Or just welding/riviting the cut plate, back a bit. I suppose eaither would work though. I guess my question is more along the lines of... Have many people found the need to modify the girdle plates on the deepeeka suit? Or does it usually fit well off the shelf? I do have a woolen and linen tunic allready... I have the fabric for a Subarmalis but I still have to cut and assemble it. So i expect that to add a inch or so to the chest. Any suggestions for other vendors or styles? I have a bit of money to throw around, but probably not for a full blown custom job. Sad

As a side note, I have been spending some of my free time building my own suit of Lorica Segmentata, a ongoing project for about a year now(Thanks to the instructions on the Legio XX site). I have the brass fittings constructed to my liking. I'm assembling the girdle peices now... theres only a few hours out of the week that the metal shop here at college will let me work and I make alot of mistakes and have to redo things(but atleast I can use thier tools!). Anywho, this is really more of an experiment. My construction isn't turning out very well, which is why I wanted to purchase one. Maybe my second attempt will be more successfull. I only mention it to say i have some metalworking experience and I can do some modificaitons to a purchased suit if I need to.

Thanks!
Real name: Zach
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#2
Greetings!
Unless you are sold on Deepeeka I would avoid them ( their helms are not to bad ). I went with Centurion style armor which still keeps in the right time frame or you could go with mail armor. There are some really great metalsmiths through the internet in the U.S. If you still want the Segmentata talk to a metalsmith about sizing, Armor is expensive either if
it is leather or metal and the fit is most important. Good luck with your armor.

STRENGTH and HONOR

Dante
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#3
As always, start with Matt Amt's Legion XX site. He has extensive guidelines on how to make things, which, even if you're not making things yourself, will give you a good idea of how things should look, and perhaps steer you away from making another mistake.

By far the most common armor was linked rings, called hamata. Any kind of armor, though, differs with respect to styling, depending on which time period you intend to interpret. Pick that first, and then make all the other parts of your kit fit that time.

Put it in modern terms. It's no sense using a WWI US helmet with a Civil War jacket, and a Vietnam-era backpack, and a Desert Storm camo trouser, along with a Revolutionary War musket, and a "Rough Rider" saber. Roman gear didn't change quite as fast as all that, but it certainly changed over the centuries.

What time span interests you? Rome lasted a really long time. Are there groups in your geographical era? What century do they do? The idea is to fit in, not stand out as odd. At least for most of us (with respect to our equipment--personalities notwithstanding :wink: )
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#4
Ave!

Glad the site has been helpful! Don't give up on making your own segmentata--that's pretty much the only cheap way to get one that fits.

Deepeeka's segmentata is good, but yes, it only comes in one size, as far as I know. About a 48, I think. So it's going to be too large for you, as it is for most folks. I would not recommend simply adding more padding under it, since if the sides do not fit closely to your body, the plates will press out against the insides of your upper arms, leading to discomfort and numbness.

Resizing a lorica is almost as much work as building your own! You have to remove a LOT of rivets, possibly damaging the fittings, then cut plates and replace fittings, which might be interfered with by the position of the internal leathers.

I think Imperium Ancient Armory offers at least its Kalkriese lorica in different sizes, so you might check them out.

If you decide to go with mail, I don't know if Deepeeka has very good mail yet or not. It should be alternating rows of solid and riveted rings, and I'd strongly recommend against galvanization. Find-It makes a good hamata in 2 versions (8mm rings and 6mm). Soul of the Warrior (Rusty Myers) also has those options, and also offers customized sizing--that saves a ton of weight, since most off-the-shelf mail fits about a size 50!

Shop around! Vale,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#5
Quote:Find-It makes a good hamata in 2 versions (8mm rings and 6mm)
I have a 44 inch chest and the Find-It Hamata using 6mm rings fits me perfectly with a subarmalis. It also comes without galvinization.
Titus Licinius Neuraleanus
aka Lee Holeva
Conscribe te militem in legionibus, vide mundum, inveni terras externas, cognosce miros peregrinos, eviscera eos.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legiotricesima.org">http://www.legiotricesima.org
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#6
Thanks everyone for the quick replys.

I suppose im not really sold on any particular period of Roman history. I found was a site for group where I live (Upstate NY) but it seems they are no longer active... their website hasn't been updated since 2000. As far as history goes almost all roman history interests me. But I suppose I'll decide what era im trying to emulate when I decide to buy more things. Also I'll look into the Imperium Armory store, their stuff looks quite good. I have though about the Hamata a bit, but the Segmentata look appeals to me so much more. I may purchase one sooner or later.

The mistakes I make on my armor are usually due to my own inaptitude with metalworking, but im getting better. The Legio XX site is what really got me started on the project to begin with.

As far as the Deepeeka suit, thats what I was afraid of. The last suit i got felt like a large metal bucket. The girdle plates could overlap by a good 3 inches or so. When it was tied together there would be a full 6 inches of extra space between the armor and my body. How much extra room should there be between the armor and my body? Flush? or say an inch or less?
Real name: Zach
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#7
You want enough room to fit your tunic and subarmalis under it, and a little breathing room. Have you also tried Find-it Armory's segmentata? Their description of the Deepeeka seggie says it will fit up to a 44" chest. Might be a bit better of a fit. https://ssl.perfora.net/www.finditarmor ... H3851%3D29

Also, don't condem all of deepeeka's products. Many of them are more than acceptable. You just need to know which ones, and purchase them from a reputable dealer.
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#8
I had to re-leather the entire shoulder sections of my lor. seggie after about a month of use, the leather was not good quality and shredded apart.

I ended up cutting down the width of the shoulder plates anyway, as they were too wide for my body size. I used 'Aviation' shears/snips that could cut up to .16 gauge metal...But even then, it was a struggle to cut through...But I got it done without much problem. I think the whole project took me about a week, spread over 2-3 hours about every night.

I will need to re-leather the belly/girdle sections sometime soon...It's finally starting to fall apart, which oddly has held together far better than the shoulders did. I am thinking of removing one section of plate to have the armor end a little higher than it currently is - as bending over is still somewhat uncomfortable with a metal edge poking into my belly...But, that could be solved with the new leather and positioning...Not sure until I make/get time to do it.

The only other gripe with my armor is the hinges are not full length hinges, just a little end rolled over...Which some are now pulling apart. If I could, I would cut all new hinges and replace them (see: that thing about free time), but I also stink at making hinges...So maybe that's why I keep putting it off.

I'd recommend getting a box of Copper roofing nails - they are easy to work with, have a good sized head to hold the leather, and the cut off ends, about 1" or so worth, they can be made into rivets for other parts, as well as belts and such.
Andy Volpe
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
https://www.facebook.com/LegionIIICyr/
Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
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#9
Oh wow, i never thought of copper roofing nails. I just ordered soild rivits from a website. I have more than I know what to do with, but ill keep it in mind the next time I need some. The machine shop at college here has a beverly shear, jump shear, and all different kinds of metal cutters... I think they even have a plasma cutter that i could use. Cutting wont be a problem, but putting the holes in the leathers and lining everything up right is the part I have the most trouble with.
Real name: Zach
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#10
Did you make a cardboard mock-up of the armour in 1:1 scale first?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#11
I attempted to... Cardboard is hard to make it do what i want. I guess by trouble, I mean it isnt exactly how I pictured it... with some experience now I realize moreso how it works. I had trouble getting the next plate to be the same shape as the next one so the holes i drilled were off. I probably should have drilled the holes after shaping the plates, not before...
Real name: Zach
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#12
No, I always recommend drilling (or better yet, punching) the holes and then shaping the plates. If you are talking about the girdle plates, you can even put all the fittings on them, put them together with their internal leathers while the plates are still flat, and THEN curve the whole section at once. I was a little dubious the first time we tried this, but it works! It's easier to install the leathers that way, and quicker to shape the plates to about the same curvature.

Don't worry, you'll use all those rivets sooner or later!

Vale,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#13
Quote:and THEN curve the whole section at once.

Well dang, i missed that part. Had allready pre-drilled and pre-attached all the fittings, but I used a metal rolling machine (looks like 3 large rolling pins with a hand crank.. dont know the name) To bend all the plates then shape it alittle bit to fit... usually with a rubber mallet over the curved end of an anvil. I should have put the leathers on first... Didn't think of that, blast...

Maybe ill take it apart and flatten them back out, that should make attaching the leathers quite a bit easier. All the straps are being put on with a slight curve as it is now... but maybe thats the way its supposed to be?
Real name: Zach
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#14
Yes, for years we made our loricae the same way, curving the plates first and then assembling. So that's how the instructions on my page say to do it. (I always put the fittings on before curving, but that can vary.) Put the rivet holes for the leathers in the same place on every plate. When the whole thing is assembled, yes, the leathers at either end will tend to "lean" or "step" in one direction or the other, but that's fine. So you don't have to flatten everything out, just make sure the pairs of holes at the ends of each plate are all equidistant from their respective ends.

If you aren't happy with your fittings, maybe just a little time with a small file will help? Many people make their fittings too big in any case, so there's not much danger of making them too small. If you can post some photos of what you've got so far, we'll all be glad to advise!

Good luck and Vale,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#15
Here are some photos of what I've done so far.
Real name: Zach
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