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"National Roman Legion"
#1
Here is a website that advocates forming a "National Roman Legion"
I suppose the website creator would be in charge.
Comments?
http://www.nationalromanlegion.com
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#2
A lot of photo's show Dan Peterson, as does the use of Legio XIIII GMV.

Futhermore I think it's good to have large units on the field during event, but that could also achieved on large events (if the organizer want to put a lot of work into it).
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Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#3
I thought Dan Peterson had been quiet for a long time!
Maybe this would be a route for the US reenactors to combine for Kalkriese 2009?
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#4
Would be cool to get together in larger numbers....

It is what we all aspire to, I assume?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#5
Dan has talked to me over the past 5-6 years about creating a webpage for Legio XIIII, so he finally did it. Methinks he wants everyone under his Legio XIIII umbrella and standards.
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#6
There are already moves afoot to start a Caesar's Xth legion, Republican!
Would be cool if everyone was to join up for these, to make sure there was a whole legion available for various time periods.....but I guess I am dreaming there! :roll:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#7
Quote:Methinks he wants everyone under his Legio XIIII umbrella and standards.

Oh, that one again. It seems that our friend Marsh has outdone himself! First a website, then a forum, and now a website for the National Legion!
By the looks of it, most of this was addded in late May of this year.
Nice work, Marsh! :wink:

I recall that he wanted to do a similar thing for the Late Romans, when he was still living in Germany.
Legio XIIII never really existed as a group with members. It was always a volunteer force of US servicemen, trained, armoured and clothed by Dan from his Deepeeka stuff. Not like the groups that we are members of.
I recall that Dan attempted to create this 'national legion' when he was transferred from Europe back to the States a few years ago, with all the US legions falling under his command. Was there ever enough enthusiasm for this project to grow from mere theory into something practical?

Quote: Unfortunately, they essentially started from the top, with the organizer becoming the Colonel, the obligatory Regimental Color or Battle Flag is then created, and often no more than a handful of soldiers are available to march behind the Color.
True of course, but unfair in this case, because Dan never has headed a consistent group himself, and with this initiative he want everybody to become the rank and file, but himself of course as 'Colonel'! If such a 'National Legion' would be a real project, it would OF COURSE be the most logical thing to to start with the largest US legion (I must confess that I don't know which group that currently is) and brigade all the other groups under that one. Not start with a one-man legion.

The real Legio XIIII GMV:
[Image: camp_lafe-06-2.jpg]

Quote: Why does the National Legion Represent Legio XIIIII?
Which legion? Confusedhock: My guess is that this is a typo.... :wink:
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#8
Quote:Was there ever enough enthusiasm for this project to grow from mere theory into something practical
Uh no.
After all, this is an all volunteer hobby, and the franchise concept (in my opin) doesn't fit in with the volunteer concept generally, though HIb's Legio IX does much the same sort of thing and seems to work well. I would prefer that a 'national group' be a fund raiser and event organizer rather than an actual unit. That would be practical but not what he has in mind, I wager.

Indeed, as the cultural affairs person for the US Armored Division for whom he worked the Roman kit he bought was intended for recreational use of the soldiers, as I understand. All the folks in the pictures are US Army. He brought all that equipment from Germany when he transferred here.
Richard Campbell
Legio XX - Alexandria, Virginia
RAT member #6?
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#9
Quote:Maybe this would be a route for the US reenactors to combine for Kalkriese 2009?

Oh, but the National Legion would only allow its members to portray legionaries from Legio XIIII in the Flavian era, wouldn't it? Teutoberg Forest would be too early for that, and the wrong legions. Besides, everyone KNOWS that the Kalkriese site was NOT where the battle took place, because it's only a few inches wide and only a shoebox full of artifacts have been found there, right?

If the event organizers decide to invite only one group from the US, that's their choice. They might get a larger response if they permit any acceptably-equipped reenactor, regardless of affiliation. Why should combining in one organization be any advantage?

Well, here we go with another round of abuse and slander for wanting to do OUR HOBBY the way we like, with people we like. That's what we get for doing it all wrong, I guess. Gads...
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#10
Sadly Dan Petersen seems to be unable to even organize a volunteer reenactment group. I find it difficult to believe that a "National Legion" under his leadership will get off the ground. It is possible that someone else could pull off a National yearly event perhaps in some mid USA location such as the Parthenon in Nashville Tennessee that would be well attended. However, the increasing cost of travel is going to have an negative effect on event attendance and may impede organizing "National" groups and events for years to come..
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#11
I will gladly get a LEG XIIII GEM shield and attend any event that Dan puts on. I am well aware of his contributions to the hobby over the past 20+ years and he has always been a gentleman in person, taking time from his busy schedule to help new re-enactors, and old alike, as well as coming to events all over to set up and help other units.

Yes, the LEG XIIII GEM in Germany was made up of real soldiers, some of whom didn't stick with the hobby, but then, so many of the Americans in Germany at the time were actually real soldiers or their families and support. Is that a crime? I know many of us continued in the hobby and brought others into the hobby because of the initial work of Dan Peterson, long before there were other groups websites, and well before the Internet.

I don't mind letting egos sit on the back burner and picking up the local unit's shield and following their rules and drill commands, whenever there is an event. I would be interested in joining Caesar's Tenth Legion at their events.

I have been in this hobby for a few years and I am amazed at the egos and back-biting when someone tries to get people to all work together.

Dan was at the Lafe event this year with a few of his group, and he was supportive and helpful and very easy to work with. I wish other people could put down their personal legion banners and fall in with whatever group is the host for an event instead of trying to force people to accommodate their unit for someone else's event. Maybe we could have events with 80+ in the ranks and less centurions and tribunes and such on the sidelines. (Yes I am often on the sidelines, but I try to show up for some guard and formations, being a very old and slow recruit.)

Thank you Dan Peterson, for all you have done for the hobby, and thank you Matt Amt and many others, but I remember Dan promoting the hobby before there was Public Internet, and anyone who hasn't looked at his book, first published in 1992?, missed out on something many re-enactors still use. His articles in "Soldiers" magazine in the 1980's and various wargames magazines are collectors treasures today.

I think there are too many egos for One National Legion, but I applaud the idea and effort.
Caius Fabius Maior
Charles Foxtrot
moderator, Roman Army Talk
link to the rules for posting
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#12
Caius,
well said.

Let me be the second to also say that I have always found Dan to be a gentlemen, quite knowledgeable, and a team player as have the vast amount of all of the Roman Re Enactors that I have encountered in the United States, Canada and across that big pond called the Atlantic.

I can see the pros and cons of a National Effort to get a National Legion established. It may be for some, and it may not be for others, but I am sure not going to kick anyone in the shins for trying and even if it is not for me, if I can help a fellow Roman out, I will, because not only is it the right thing to do in my mind, it also helps to grow and expand the hobby we all like.

If not me...who?
If not now...when?

v/r
Mike
Mike Daniels
a.k.a

Titus Minicius Parthicus

Legio VI FFC.


If not me...who?

If not now...when?
:wink: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" />:wink:
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#13
Yeah, this has been discussed before...lol. Too many logical reasons to say "no thanks" than "yeah, that's a great idea!"...
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Magnus/Matt
LEGIO II AVG COH VIII
It amazes me how quickly stupid people are out-breeding the smart ones.

"The greatest impediment of all is the square-jawed, flat-talking Tatum, who is so wooden he presents a fire hazard." - The Toronto Star on Channing Tatum in "The Eagle".

"I am on a drug. It\'s called Charlie Sheen. If you try it once, you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body" - Charlie Sheen
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#14
I too have found Dan to be a great friend and source face to face! If he plans some events and pulls them off, great. We did something similar with CivWar Groups, but the more successful ones had seperate organizational commanders and event commanders, as well as matrices that shared leadership at all levels, including event commander. Having organized a number of events now, I can tell you it is INFINITELY easier to run the event if you have a fellow Centurio run the drillls and soldiers, and you sit back as camp prefect or even as a private and run the event. Makes for good lasting friendships too when you invite another Centurio to be "The" Centurio for your event.

Basic idea of the Matrix was that every unit, of __ men or larger got a command slot at an event in a certain order (that could run several years depending on the number of "national" events). Other positions were also based on the matrix as well as how many troops you brought. So the CO rotated every event, as did the XO and any higher ranks, to a different unit and were always from different units. The lower ranks, usually corp-capt were based on attendance (actual attendance). So everyone got a chance to lead.

Problem we have is that we are still very small. Most of the CivWar "Brigades" could field a 300-400 man "Battalion" at the largest events (CIVWAR runs in 5 year cycles that are on track with battle anniversaries, at least for the real big events). I have rarely seen us manage to get near 100. And that was before gas hit $4-5 a gallon here in the states.

Until we reach a critical mass, it will be very difficult to pull off more than one big "universal" event a year, and Lafe seems to have our loyalty for now!

Oh yea, there was one big catch most big brigades have, the person planning the event cannot command at that event... they have to run it. Usually the planner at one event would be the "Colonel" at the next event. This taught the value of coordinating with the event leader. Unlike an event I was at where a guest leader insisted on using his own command set... that none of us knew... sigh...

Anyway, the best way to start would be to see what it takes...

Here are some links

http://westernbrigade.org/

http://www.armyofthepacific.com/ (Probably the best IMHO... and I was Western Brigade!)

http://www.armyoftheohio.com/

There are others, and there is still some infighting too. I listed the federal units because they tended to be more democratically run, as there were fewer Federal re-enactors at most events. There are some similar southern groups, I am just not familiar with them.

The ISPA/LOSEUS Articles of Cooperation sort of cover this, though we saw no need of adopting a matrix until we can reasonably expect to field a Cohort, though in all honesty we ISPA groups have never really enforced the Articles since inception, they were based on the articles of the SouthEast Federals and are a pretty solid start point. SEF was another mega unit that has since folded into Western Brigade.

http://legvi.tripod.com/ispa/id13.html

Rusty
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#15
Quote: wish other people could put down their personal legion banners and fall in with whatever group is the host for an event instead of trying to force people to accommodate their unit for someone else's event.
That's the rub. Quite a few won't do that, and if they won't there will be friction and hurt feelings and ugly things said, just like the last time this issue was brought up 3 or 4 years ago. The ensuing arguments resulted in getting a number of people booted off various forum and group memberships.

Hope that doesn't happen again.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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