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Are there any republican-era reenactors?
#1
Does anyone here do reenactments from the republic? Like the punic war era? If you do do you know where to get gear? thnx!
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#2
Ave!

Yeah, there are a few Republican impressions here and there, mostly guys doing it on the side, in addition to their Imperial look. But no actual Republican events that I've ever heard of--just not enough troops for anything like that.

Ah, found one good shot from Roman Days 2005:

http://www.geocities.com/legioxxxcoh1/G ... mnites.jpg

That's me on the left in my Greek stuff (claiming to be Etruscan!), Dan Diffendale as a Samnite (w/ my pectoral and shield), and Tom Kolb as a Republican triarius. Dan's helmet is the Deepeeka Attic helmet, which isn't too bad but could be modified a bit. The latest version of their Montefortino is pretty good, and they make a reasonable Republican scutum but the boss is HUGE. They also have a gladius hispaniensis which is basically all right though the hilt doesn't thrill me (they also call it the Delos sword though it doesn't actually have any of the features of the original Delos gladius!). Oh, their triple-disc cuirass isn't half bad, though it's really more Samnite than Roman.

Tom and I made our own pectorals. His has simple scribed line decoration, while mine has embossed dots (easy enough to do):

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/pectoral1.jpg

Probably most Roman pectorals were round, at least that's what is usually found, but there's some debate about the details.

We made our own shields, and his came out much better (on the right):

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/repscuta.jpg

That get you started? Vale,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#3
I'm working on my Republican impression and it can take a while to figure out what's correct. I'm doing both 2nd Punic War and late Republican/Caesarian.

Deepeeka Montefortino A with horsehair plume and feather holders attached by a ring around the knob.
Deepeeka Republican scutum, the leather edging removed and the sinew used to sew on white felt.
Castillejo belt plates on the way, and a Numantia buckle, both by Nodge Nolan from Armamentaria.
Either caligae, or I've also seen a primary reference with Celtic style 'pixie boots' depicted (doing both).
Gladius (post 2nd Punic War) - Hanwei gladius (wait for the outcry). The blade is a cracking shape as is the guard (with inset plate), etc. Only the scabbard needs modifying IMHO. http://www.netlinkenterprises.com/prodimages/SH2032.jpg
I also have a typical Deepeeka Republican sword.
DSC hamata, the leather edging removed on the doubler, with added leather beneath the doubler. Also an alternative linen doubler. Chest connector is a rectangular brass plate.
Pectoral heart protector, in the works.
Off white wool tunic.

The subject's also been discussed in Christian's marketplace section.
http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=15554
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#4
Quote:Either caligae, or I've also seen a primary reference with Celtic style 'pixie boots' depicted (doing both).

Boy, I'd sure like to see more evidence for whatever the heck they were wearing on their feet back in the 2nd century BC and earlier! I just have a problem with the classic Imperial caligae going that far back....

Quote:Gladius (post 2nd Punic War) - Hanwei gladius (wait for the outcry). The blade is a cracking shape as is the guard (with inset plate), etc. Only the scabbard needs modifying IMHO.

Huh! Okay, I can see that. I'd re-do the hilt, though, to make it a little less obviously Imperial in form. For one thing, hispaniensis blades almost always have rounded or sloped shoulders, so the inset plate that sits down on straight shoulders won't work. The few depictions of hilts that we have just never look like the Imperial types.

Keep at it! Valete,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#5
I've been working up a Late Republic / Great Civil Wars period kit, primarily for presentations at schools (normally do Imperial)

the only group I know of in the US doing pre-empire is
http://legvi.tripod.com/thirdcohort/

Hopefully if more gear is made, more people will get into it, and an event or two will show up. Smile
Andy Volpe
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
https://www.facebook.com/LegionIIICyr/
Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
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#6
Quote:[Huh! Okay, I can see that. I'd re-do the hilt, though, to make it a little less obviously Imperial in form. For one thing, hispaniensis blades almost always have rounded or sloped shoulders, so the inset plate that sits down on straight shoulders won't work. The few depictions of hilts that we have just never look like the Imperial types.
I reckon it's good for late Republican/Caesarian, even Augustan. That said, Aurificina Treverica do a version of the Tunisian, Es Soumâa near El Khroub find (130-110 BC). http://www.replik-online.de/en/index.html (under Republican). Not only does it have a completely straight sided blade, but there seems to be an inset under the guard, maybe? Anyone know for sure? Was the original's blade squared to the tang with a guard plate?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#7
In the Hispaniensis from Mouries (France) there's an hexagonal bronce plate, inserted in the tang. It has been interpreted as a guard plate by Armae in its Hispaniensis.
No other plates in the rest of Hispaninesis that I know...
Jorge Mambrilla
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#8
Quote:Probably most Roman pectorals were round, at least that's what is usually found, but there's some debate about the details.

Just to note, as far as I know, no *Roman* Republican pectoral armor has been found. There are scads of the Picene disc cuirasses, from Picenum and Samnium, though.

http://images.google.com/images?&q=disc ... rch+Images
Dan Diffendale
Ph.D. candidate, University of Michigan
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#9
Since we are on the subject, i am planning to do my impression on the Late Republican era Legionary.

I see on the LEG VI COHORS III website the recommend only the Monterfino A Galea, on SOTW i see they sell the B, is this an acceptable helm for this period, was it the norm, or was the Coolus more in use at this point.

Everything else i can pretty much figure out from their site, except the cloak, i assume a red or brown wool Sagum would still have been the norm back then too.
AKA Travis S.
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#10
The Monte A and B being acceptable will depend on the group you're working with, or the research you do [on your own]. The problem is noone really makes a 'late' pattern Montefortino, or at least there are not enough variety of the differing types currently available.

Lonely Mountain Forge makes a later pattern one -
http://members.aol.com/gijchar/roman.htm

You can double-check images of surviving examples on the Romanarmy.com helmet database.

In either case, the A (and B, C) that are available is simply what is available. The newest A model from Deepeeka seems to be a very good offering. I'm happy with mine, although it is thought to be a way early pattern for Late Republic....But it's what I have. So when that question pops up, I'm willing to make mention of / to admit that.

The 'first' generation Montefortino from Deepeeka have been noted as being way too big / wide in size, and apparently the fittings were questionable, but they have improved as mentioned.

Hopefully we can see more types made available down the road.

Just remember we don't have absolute proof of what is in use at a particular time. Montefortino types appear to be in use, AFAIK, as late as the 30's AD. By then, it *appears* they've added on "brow guards" and have a larger 'neck'/'nape' guard on the back. It is *likely* that Coolus types start to be introduced by Augustus, they *may* have started to appear at the end of Caesar's Gallic wars...Maybe... [I'm] just not certain. From what it appears with Romans through much of their period, there is lots of overlap and mix-matching in gear being in use.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmets.html

It is argued by some whether *every single* Roman soldier was wearing armor or not - the Mainz relief of the soldier in "fighting stance" flies in the face of 'all soldiers in armor', and that relief is dated to around 9AD. And there is reference to that infamous "Antesignatii" from Caesar; and having to make 'padded jacks' (for lack of a better term) vs. Pompey's archers. (forget that particular reference, sorry)

As for the cloak - what is the context of your assumption? what is the evidence that says without a doubt it is red or brown? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk - I'm trying to reiterate we don't have definite proof of what colors and type were worn when. IMHO whatever 'earth tone' or 'natural color' you can find in wool in a big enough sheet that will work for your cloak that you can afford, is better than trying to conform to a 'standard color' that may or may not have been in use, or can't be backed up by surviving evidence/examples...If that makes sense.

However, all of that said, you can't really go 'wrong' wearing Maille armor, with the shoulder doubling; a Monte or early pattern Coolus; and either a Mainz or Hispanesis style Gladius. All of those are accepted to be in use between the Republic and Empire.
Andy Volpe
"Build a time machine, it would make this [hobby] a lot easier."
https://www.facebook.com/LegionIIICyr/
Legion III Cyrenaica ~ New England U.S.
Higgins Armory Museum 1931-2013 (worked there 2001-2013)
(Collection moved to Worcester Art Museum)
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#11
Thanks for the info that helped a lot.

As for the cloak, my assumption was just that, an assumption, and i was mainly just assuming that is what would be acceptable as the norm, but there is no proof either way so we can only guess, and that cued my assumption, not that I'd ever argue against other colors being just as common.
AKA Travis S.
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#12
This is my group... sorry for the few words but my english is very rusty!!!
I an the Centurio of the Legio I .... Look at Galleria- Foto - Rievocazione di epoca repubblicana a Lodi vecchio

http://www.legio-i-italica.it/
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#13
Quote:In the Hispaniensis from Mouries (France) there's an hexagonal bronce plate, inserted in the tang. It has been interpreted as a guard plate by Armae in its Hispaniensis.
No other plates in the rest of Hispaninesis that I know...
See the PDF article: Augustan sword scabbards with net-like fitments - Janka Istenic.
http://av.zrc-sazu.si/En/54/AV54.html

Fig. 7a, from Magdalensberg dated to 30/20 BC, clearly shows a guard plate of what seems to be elliptical shape. The important point is that she says those scabbards found with net-like fittings only on the tip are early to late Augustan, but their predecessors seem to have had the cage-like fittings over the full length (p.274).

Unless I'm reading it wrong, that means to me that style of sword could certainly be used for Caesarian or Civil Wars at least, and probably earlier, simply because the Delos sword has a similar arrangement and that dates to even earlier. The Magdalensberg sword certainly looks to be an Hispaniensis, not a Mainz. When it comes to the brass guard plate, we see one on the Mourie sword and the Magdalensberg, so why wouldn't there be more inbetween those times as long as they had a square shoulder at the top of the blade?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
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#14
Quote:
For one thing, hispaniensis blades almost always have rounded or sloped shoulders, so the inset plate that sits down on straight shoulders won't work. The few depictions of hilts that we have just never look like the Imperial types.

Keep at it! Valete,

Matthew

I have seen a plate, possibly a spatha plate, and a dagger plate, most likely 1st CenturyAD that are shaped to accommodate the curved base of a tang, which will snug right down onto the blade when the grip assembly is peened on. Possibly the hispaniensis plates were the same? It would seem to be a logical way of doing them.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#15
avete Omnes

In Italy we are creating the X legion of Caesar,the "equestris".we will have montefortino (whit the paragnatids modificated) horse tail in the helm,belt whit plate of numanzia(from an italian artisan) gladius hispaniensis(long blade and short balde)republican pugio,hamata (6 millimeter)

for the scutum we will have repubblican scutum type fayum,covered of skin,whit umbo and spinae.

Ours dream is to create in all the country of Europe other parts of this Xlegion..the X legion of Caesar..

important is to have good level of reconstruction..not like some persons that whant do tjhe republican whit the fulham of the deepeeka.....


valete
PierPaolo siercovich
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