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"Frankish" seax scabbard NEW PHOTOS
#31
Quote:
Iagoba:2nb1buw3 Wrote:Middle 8th century, I think.

The third person referred to is an 8th c. nobleman from Dürbheim, identified by a lot of silver fitting on his belt, scabbard, spurs etc.

So the scabbard is mid-8th c.?

For me it looks a little bit earlier…(7th century?)
For a Langsax the scabbard is to short and bright.

A Grave of Bräunlingen is dated to the 8th century too, with Langsax, but no Metal elements for the Scabbard.
Mostly all 8th century rivets/ nails are surrounded by little perls/balls, called Perlrandnieten.
Referencing to Frauke Stein (“Adelsgräber des achten Jahrhunderts in Deutschland) specially all rivets for sax scabbard have this kind of rivets.
The wearing of the Langsax ist shown at one Images of the Stuttgarter Psalter, it is a substitute for a sword, shorter versions of the sax are often found in combination with the sword.
I searched this book “H. Steuer. Krieger und Bauern- Bauernkrieger. In: Die Alamannen(Stuttgart 1997) S.275 f.“ , sorry this scabbard I have not found in it.
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#32
Thanks for the help. :wink:

Perlrandnieten, then...I´ll have to find something simmilar to those.

I´ve found an article mentioning those, but my German is not so good after only three months living there :lol:

[url:wiij809g]http://www.gefao.de/images/literatur/AIO9-PDF/Brand_Spiong.pdf[/url]
-This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how
sheep´s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
[Image: escudocopia.jpg]Iagoba Ferreira Benito, member of Cohors Prima Gallica
and current Medieval Martial Arts teacher of Comilitium Sacrae Ensis, fencing club.
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#33
Oh you found thewww.gefeo.de site which is the archaeological site for my home country.
Interesting for late roman is this http://www.gefao.de/images/literatur/AiO5/AiO5-07.pdf
Maybe Saxons in roman services who return afterwards back in the barbaric part of Germany.

To the rivets, a early form could be this:
http://civis.tempus-vivit.net/sindri/Bi ... rlrand.jpg


Are you interested in the 8th Century?
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#34
Mmmmm... nice "late roman" belt. Thanks! :wink:

Yes I´m interested, but at local level (Basque country) the V to X centuries are still quite dark. :?
-This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how
sheep´s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
[Image: escudocopia.jpg]Iagoba Ferreira Benito, member of Cohors Prima Gallica
and current Medieval Martial Arts teacher of Comilitium Sacrae Ensis, fencing club.
Reply
#35
Could this have been suspended from a saddle?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#36
Quote:Could this have been suspended from a saddle?

what?
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#37
The seax scabbard that is the topic of the post.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#38
Possible but not most likely.
Take a look at site 123:
http://books.google.de/books?id=ZHDZA9B ... #PPA123,M1

Scabbards are often with a lot rivets smaller and bigger ones.
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#39
It looks to be a fair bit shorter than the one in site123!

I only suggested this as it seems there is some debate about the way it was worn. I can envisage it on a saddle, if it is actually as large as the drawing in Iagobas post!

But possible the scale in the drawing is off?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Reply
#40
Mostly it is reconstructed as a part of the belt

http://www.westfali.de/ARCHEON_0604_2.JPG
This si simulary to a picture of the above mentioned Stuttgarter Psalter.

Short versions are used together wit the Spatha, as seen in grave finds.
Charles the Great ordered it to the equipment, which a rider should have on campaign in a letter to the Abbot Fulrad of St. Denise.
The short versions are used as the former pugio, as fighting knife.
The long version the Langsax is a substitute for the Spatha, but only by the Frisian and Saxon tribes and distinguishes after the territory comes part of the empire.
A lot differences are in the hole findings of this weapon, in quality productions and morphology, some are very simple steel, some are of several traces of damask patterns.
So the actually dates and explains…
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#41
http://www.rete-amicorum.de/bildergaler ... nger9.html

The are not often grave findings from scabbards for wearing, it seem s to be kind of transport scabbard or grave scabbard out of wood and birch bast, nobody know this was a common form or especially made for the burial.
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#42
Confusedhock:

Thanks for all those pictures. I thought there wasn´t so many simmilar scabbards, and I´m happy to find I was wrong!

I hope this summer I´ll finish mine. Big Grin
-This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how
sheep´s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
[Image: escudocopia.jpg]Iagoba Ferreira Benito, member of Cohors Prima Gallica
and current Medieval Martial Arts teacher of Comilitium Sacrae Ensis, fencing club.
Reply
#43
OK. Now with those new pics I get a better idea of how such a large Seax was suspended.
Jon R
There are no real truths, just stories. (Zuni)
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#44
Just yet reached me the info, that the Stuttgarter Psalter is online!!!!
The most detailed Bible for reenacters of the dark age and early medieval!
You looking for weapons, amour, tools, clothing or a band which plays here you will find it:


http://www.wlb-stuttgart.de/index.php?id=3547&set [mets]=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wlb-stuttgart.de%2Fdigitalisate%2Fcod.bibl.fol.23%2Fmets.xml&set[image]=1&set[zoom]=min&set[style]=
............../\\Sascha../\\..Klauss/\\..............
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#45
Sascha
May I post the picture in page 2 onto the Viking/saxon living history board?
Jon R.
There are no real truths, just stories. (Zuni)
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