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Building a shield
#16
Quote:
Quote:You only have to look at the helmet found with the internal felt and fur intact.
...which one is that, Jim? One of those Russell-Robinson referred to, though it sounds like a newer find? Tell more please !

It's an Imperial Gallic F type found at Vindonissa. The helmet has traces of leather on the outside, probably from the leather bag it was in, or perhaps a helmet cover (helmet covers are mentioned in several ancient sources). on the inside are remains of a felt and fur liner.

Vale,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

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#17
When I bent my shield I used an old bath tub and soaked the wood in my pool and then just placed weights on top of it until it dried.

I found that using a putty knife to spread the glue really helps I also used it to keep the "bubbles" out of the linen.

I actually hammered out my own umbo we used a stump with a hole in it and a shot put on a stick and muscle.

Good luck hope this helps
Valete,
Owain/Cicero
a.k.a. Dave Kufner

QUI DESIDERAT PACEM PRAEPARAT BELLUM

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#18
Quote:Sorry, but that's enough to create a 5% difference, and if you look at extant examples in museums of what was being carried and worn it's clear that they were really small blokes. 5' 7" is the tall version of Roman man, and many male skeletons found in cemeteries are closer to 5' 5.5" (in Italy itself IIRC). When a shield at rest is just above your belly button, it was at nipple height for real 2000 years ago. This has a major impact on anecdotal evidence from modern re-enactors making claims that the scutum, helmet, armour, gladius, etc, could "do this" and "do that". The data is flawed.

You only have to look at the helmet found with the internal felt and fur intact. Try stuffing that into an accurately sized repro of the Gallic G and fit it on a modern western noggin.

So, Tarbicvs, what size would you say the scutum should be? (In inches would be spiffy as you know I'm one of them ignorant Americuns what don't hold w/ that wierd-ass metric crap). Seriously, it seems to depend on whom you ask. Hibernicus was telling me 46"-49" which to me seems way big. However, I can see your argument for up sizing due to larger modern physiques.

I'd also like to see some good pix of that helmet.
Best, DMV (back from the cold for a bit)
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana http://www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

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#19
Decimus/Marsh wrote:-
Quote:what size would you say the scutum should be? (In inches would be spiffy
Well, you could do a lot worse than start with the dimensions of the only known intact rectangular scutum - the red Dura Europos shield.
It was 42 inches (1.02m) long, 32 inches in width (0.83 m), but the curvature, believed to be partially crushed, was extreme so that the chord was only 24 inches(0.66m). It was constructed of three layers of 'Plane'( some reports say Birch wood strips, varying in width, 1.25-3.25 inches(30-80 mm) wide; and 0.06-0.08 inches (1.5-2mm) thick, the two outer layers horizontally laid and the middle one vertically laid. The back was strengthened with a framework of strips 0.75 inches (19mm)wide, pegged and glued. The boss opening was circular, 4.75 inches (118 mm) diameter. The boss was missing but the shield had 4 rivet holes to fasten one on.Both sides of the shield were thin leather (?) covered, two layers ( some reports say leather over linen)on the front and one on the back, and the shield had a 2 inch (50mm) aprox wide leather binding wrapped over the rim and stitched on, re-inforced with 4 rawhide corner pieces. Earlier rectangular scuta had bronze edge binding, riveted on.
Armed with this knowledge and the fact that Legionary recruits were supposed ( at one time at least) to be 6 Roman feet ( 5ft 7 inches our measure, 1.67 m) you can if you wish scale this shield out to your own size proportionally ( but I would not trust the distorted curvature measure)
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#20
meaning... what? I am 5'10" Like I said, I was discussing it with Hibernicus and he said 46" to 49" which to my mind is to tall. I WAS thinking ca. 42" but I just don't know. I am talking 1st Cen. how big were the Auguston or Republican scuta?
DECIMvS MERCATIvS VARIANvS
a.k.a.: Marsh Wise
Legio IX Hispana http://www.legioix.org

Alteris renumera duplum de quoquo tibi numeraverunt

"A fondness for power is implanted in most men, and it is natural to abuse it when acquired." -- Alexander Hamilton

"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.... But then I repeat myself." ~Mark Twain

[img size=150]http://www.romanobritain.org/Graphics/marsh_qr1.png[/img]
(Oooh, Marshall, you cannot use an icky modern QR code, it is against all policies and rules.)
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#21
Meaning, if you wished to 'scale up' the shield, you would multiply the dimensions by 1.04 ( the ratio of 5ft 10 inches to 5 ft7 inches)..... so the 42 inch Dura scutum would become 43.8 inches long and 33.2 inches wide.....
Quote:I am talking 1st Cen. how big were the Auguston or Republican scuta?
...there are no intact specimens of 1C AD scuta that I know of......

The only other intact specimen was found at Kasr-el-Harit in the Fayum district in Egypt c.1900, and is believed to be in an Egyptian museum, but it has'disappeared' - it's whereabouts are now unknown.

It was of the much earlier Republican form with curved top and bottom.(Praetorians are shown carrying this 'old-style shield' as late as the mid-1st century, along with 'Attic' style helmets.....but compare modern Guard units wearing old-fashioned uniforms).

Polybius describes it as follows:
" The Roman panoply consists firstly of a shield (scutum), the convex surface of which measures two and a half feet (30 inches, 0.75 m) in width and four feet in length,(48 inches.1.18 m) the thickness at the rim being a palm's breadth. It is made of two layers glued together with bull's-hide glue, the outer surface being then covered first with canvas/linen and then with calf-skin. The upper and lower rims are strengthened by an iron edging which protects it from the cutting strokes of swords and from wear when rested on the ground. It also has an iron boss (umbo) fixed to it which turns aside the most formidable blows of stones, pikes, and heavy missiles in general. "

The Fayum shield matches this fairly closely, being 4 feet long, and over two feet wide at the chord, made from wooden ( probably Birch) strips in 3 layers, like the Dura shield. The 9 or 10 strips in the middle vertical layer varied between 2.3 and 4 inches wide; the 40 or so horizontal ones varied between 1-2 inches.The shield was thicker in the centre and flexed at the edges.There was apparently no binding ( stripped off before discarding?).
Both inside and outside were lined with lamb's wool felt, the inner overlapping the outer by 2 inches aprox. The shield had a wooden 'barleycorn' boss and full length rib attached with nails, a horizontal hand-grip and remains of two rings to attach a carrying strap.

Reconstructions of this shield are quite heavy - around 20 lbs (9 kg).
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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