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Help with hunting weapon!
#1
[Image: arpn.jpg]

Hello,

At Cohors Prima Gallica we are trying to recosntruct, step by step, the Late Roman civilian hunting scenes depicted at the Piazza Armerina (Sicily, Italy) Small Hunt mosaic.

We have come across a strange, spear-like, hunting weapon. The head is apparently socketed and forked and each end has a barb. It is used for hunting hares, possibly on horse aswell as on foot.

My question is: Have any of you seen any vaguely similar real object we could use as a source to replicate it? :?

Many thanks in advance! Big Grin

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#2
Maybe derived from the trident which was used for "hunting" fish?

Could this also, possibly be a precursor to the medieval 'fork', commonly thought to have derived from pitchforks?
Marcus Julius Germanus
m.k.a. Brian Biesemeyer
S.P.Q.A.
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#3
Has nobody, thus, seen a similar object at a Museum or Archaeological Report? :?
(or even mistakenly identified as Gladiatorial equipment? Tongue )

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#4
I wasn't able to find a picture, but I've seen a tool very similar to this. It was included in a set of iron utensils for a portable camp kitchen. It was designed for moving hot objects like stones, coals and baked potatoes.
Globuli Non Ludibrii

-- Felix Canus_____
-- Cedric Einarsson
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#5
Many thanks, Cedric! Big Grin

Did it have one-barbed points too?

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#6
From what I figure, it could be something like this:
[Image: Arpon2.jpg]
Any volunteers to try making a replica? 8)

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#7
Make a normal barbed spear point (like an angon, e.g.) with your choice of socket style, then heat and split the point down the middle. Spread the split ends and you have arrived. Show that picture above to a smith and see if he doesn't agree. :wink:
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#8
Aitor, I have to remeber you that I can speak of this with the Navarrese (?) smith who had written to my fencing club.

Seems to be simple to be done, starting from a plank of iron, but as I heard recently about a bill of 100€ for making one cut-and-thrust sword´s ward (only)... :roll:

PS: You are dangerous drawing! :wink:
-This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how
sheep´s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
[Image: escudocopia.jpg]Iagoba Ferreira Benito, member of Cohors Prima Gallica
and current Medieval Martial Arts teacher of Comilitium Sacrae Ensis, fencing club.
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#9
David,
That is our issue, we lack a competent and wide-minded blacksmith Sad

Iagoba,
I've e-mailed a better resoultion pic to all the Cohors members so you can discuss it on next Saturday's meeting. 100 euro is rather expensive Confusedhock: but our main problem now is to find somebody for doing the job properly and, if he's cheap or expensive, goes second :roll:

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
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#10
Aitor there is many different ways you could make this 4 come to mind, if you are not in a hurry for it Ill make one for you Big Grin
Regards Brennivs Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
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#11
Hi Tony! Big Grin

Many thanks for your offer! Big Grin If you make it, it will be an escellent one! 8)

The only remaining issue is waht we both understand for 'being in a hurry' Tongue

We need the implement for next Tarragona festival. That means we should have it by the beginning of May...

Regards,
:wink:
Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#12
The 100 euro was for the cut-and -thrust ward like this one:
[Image: therionarms_c909b.jpg]
It was to replace the original one, wich is too soft for real combat.

So, don´t worry, I don´t expect to be so expesive to do. I´ll ask them.
-This new learning amazes me, Sir Bedevere. Explain again how
sheep´s bladders may be employed to prevent earthquakes.
[Image: escudocopia.jpg]Iagoba Ferreira Benito, member of Cohors Prima Gallica
and current Medieval Martial Arts teacher of Comilitium Sacrae Ensis, fencing club.
Reply
#13
This is a little of topic as it is Viking/Norman, but I think I have seen a Roman version of this with maybe larger wings for Boar hunting,
[Image: P2130683.jpg]
Has anyone seen a pic of it :?:
Aitor what ever you decide if you want I will draw my ideas for the weapon and send to see what you think and May does not sound to bad since it is a little job Big Grin
Regards Brennivs Big Grin
Woe Ye The Vanquished
                     Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
                     Caratacvs
Centvrio Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
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#14
Tony,
Yes, there are Roman counterparts for that spear. Besides depictions on mosaics, I know of actual surviving points. There is a Late Roman one from the Cabriana cemetery at the burgos Museum. It has brass wire inserte decoration on the socket. I think that I have a blurry pic somewhere. I'll try to find and scan it, but it can take me sooome time. Stay tuned... :roll:

OK about the forked spear, many thanks! Big Grin roll:
If you want to continue discussion off-forum, please, send me a PM!

Regards,

Aitor
It\'s all an accident, an accident of hands. Mine, others, all without mind, from one extreme to another, but neither works nor will ever.

Rolf Steiner
Reply
#15
I know it's not the same, but what about the arrow point to hunt birds?

[Image: 529_0.jpg]

I think it's the same concept, but a diferent scale...
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