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Greek Helmet/ armour database
#76
The project isn't dead; we're hashing some things out at the moment -- will keep you updated!
Dan Diffendale
Ph.D. candidate, University of Michigan
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#77
Oh,that's the best of news,Dan,thanks.Tell us when you need the help of us simple members.If you liked the sketches, I can draw any pics of helmets no one knows place and has copyright. I aslo have few helmets to show,that I've taken the photos (about 8 helmets from Thessaloniki and Agrigento)
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#78
DAN WROTE:-
Quote:The project isn't dead; we're hashing some things out at the moment -- will keep you updated!
...that's great to hear! It was a little concerning that we couldn't seem to contact you or Andreas......but then REAL LIFE has the bad manners to intrude on such esoteric things as classifying greek helmets Sad

Keep up the good work...and as Giannis says, anything we can do to help..... Smile D
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#79
Does anyone know what this helmet would have looked like? Perhaps like those on the "Warrior vase?"
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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#80
Haha,Paul,Great vase,but you know...thise are not helmets. These are beards 8)
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#81
LOL...that's so funny! I could not figure out whay those "cheek pieces" were attached to! Thanks Giannis!
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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#82
Hi guys, I wouldn't be so sure that these guys aren't wearing helmets if I were you.....
1.The beard/cheekpieces are smooth ( no texture)
2. They are shaped more like a cheekpiece than a beard - consider the each 'bulge' over the cheek itself just where you see one on most cheekpieces, most unlike a beard. If you are looking at the 'extension'/ beard-point, recall that there are precedents for cheekpieces like this e .g. Thracian types with' beards' - and it is really onlt this 'extension' that gives any impression of beard.
3.The 'smooth' forehead with incised line clearly indicates a helmet is being worn
4. Face appears 'clean-shaven' i.e. no moustache ( I know, there are precedents for clean lipped beards, but still.....)
...and lastly, and most importantly.....
5. Where are the ears? Beards don't grow over ears! Therefore, when I look, I overwhelmingly see 'cheek-pieces' not beards
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#83
here's a link to the image:

http://www.cvaonline.org/cva/projectpages/Greece.htm

select the second Athens option to browse vases and then go forward a couple plates to 53. There is an excellent image of a ship on the vase as well.

looking at it now that I have been told, I think it's just a beard.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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#84
No,Paul M. It's a beard. The ear is painted very small and very close to the ribon,but it's there. And there is no neck guard,just the curly long hair.And in the forehead,also the vurly hair. But most important, this is a very common style to paint beards at this time and it appears in vases,(painted)sculptures and even head-shaped vases. The most interesting in the vase though is... what are two udult men doing so close one another??? :roll:
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#85
Well, I can't see ears....but if the back represents hair, as you say, then the long hair would cover ears, so perhaps you are right....especially as other vases of similar date seem to have beards painted in this way..... but I still think it somewhat ambiguous, and with such a 'stylised' form, you would need to know the artistic conventions used to be sure of what excatly is being represented....
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
Reply
#86
The fact that you two are agreeing has restored my faith in humanity :lol:

I see now that the warriors on the "warrior vase" have small cheek guards and beards as well.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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#87
To Dan and Andreas:-

...I know Dan is alive and well ( and kicking! ) from other threads, but haven't heard from Andreas for a while ( even a P.M. waits uncollected! )

Even "non-news" e.g. we haven't had time to do anything this week would be useful..........and re-assure us anxious folks that the project is not forgotten........how about a once-a- week/fortnight update ? Smile
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
Reply
#88
Quote:
Giannis K. Hoplite:1ymvlzjo Wrote:Yes but again we need to ask permition to use the photos. The reference of the book would not be enough.

I'm just talking about photographs from museums. I've taken these pictures myself, and so I own the copyright to them.

AFAIK you don't, because these items belong to a museum, the museum owns the copyright. Sad

Examples
Check the 5th bullet point down:
http://www.royalarmouries.org/extsite/v ... ionId=1182
Regards,

Hisham
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#89
Quote:AFAIK you don't, because these items belong to a museum, the museum owns the copyright.
.....I'm afraid this is incorrect, the museum may own the items, but it cannot own copyright in any photos taken by a person. That person is the originator/author of those photos/images, and hence owns the copyright in them. Ruben is quite right in this instance.

In the example you linked to, Royal Armouries has a regulation ( the 5th bullet point down) that says that they allow photography provided that it is not used commercially, or uploaded to the internet. This is a mere "wish" on their part, and has no real legal standing - you may notice that they request that visitors comply.
Another example of copyright from your example is that they don't allow photography in the cinema. That is because they are showing someone else's images ( and they are the copyright holder), and a person photographing those images ( that is 'copying' someone else's images, could potentially lead to a breach of the image originator's copyright, and Royal Armouries could find itself party to any legal consequences)
I would have no hesitation in providing any personal photos taken there to the Database, and indeed as the Database builds, inviting them and other relevant institutions to contribute relevant photos themselves, which I'm reasonably sure they would do, suitably accredited.

Incidently, I should add I am a qualified solicitor in England and Wales as well as here, with some 30 years experience here in Oz and in the U.K.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#90
Thanks for that clarification Paullus, so I guess it's legal to post photos I've taken in the Royal Armouries and British Museum then?
Regards,

Hisham
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