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Battle of Cunaxa Illustration
#31
Wow what a great find ! Linen(?) thorakes, with an exceptionally large upright neck-piece, no helmet, akinakes strapped to leg - the classic Persian cavalryman ! Big Grin
Any more like this that you are aware of ?

A Laudes to you for this post !!
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#32
Wonderful photos!
What do you make of the pelta? Some type of double hand grip? Does the shield look slighty dished? Maybe a bronze pelta instead of wicker? The kopis is wonderfully detailed!
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#33
Really great work, Johnny. I like your illustrative style. Smile
Now, is this digital or traditional artwork (and if so, what medium)?
Sara T.
Moderator
RAT Rules for Posting

Courage is found in unlikely places. [size=75:2xx5no0x] ~J.R.R Tolkien[/size]
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#34
The whole thing is wonderfully detailed ! Double handgrips for sure... and look at the way the left hand infantryman is carrying his two javelins between the grips - neat and practical. Smile
...and the cavalryman/deceased interestingly appears to have a double layer of pteryges, and a lance/spear for both hunting and fighting, rather than the two javelins traditionally found in the literary sources.
The peltai do look slightly dished, like Macedonian ones, and are smooth, probably wooden, again like Macedonian ones and since we can only see the backs we can't know if they are meant to be bronze faced - probably not, since given the level of detail, you would expect to see the 'dagging' or similar around the rim.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#35
Many thanks, Laran! That picture is excellent for my research on Persian warfare. Laus ad te! Has that sarcophagus been published anywhere other than Arkeo-Atlas?

Its interesting that the shields lack the slight semicircular cutout of the Sidon Sarcophagus ones. Those peltai were certainly hide-faced wood, but these look like wood possibly faced with another material.

(A slight side-note Kai: if you look at the Greek of Xenophon's description of the enemy line at Cunaxa, you will find that Tissaphernes' men wore "bright body-armour" rather than the common English translation of "white cuirasses." The adjective can mean "white", but "bright" or "shining" is the core meaning and would make just as much sense in context).
Nullis in verba

I left this forum around the beginning of 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value
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#36
Quote:Any more like this that you are aware of ?

Quote:Has that sarcophagus been published anywhere other than Arkeo-Atlas?


Don't know much about this, unfortunately. :? I'll try to learn though.

By the way, if you are interested, in the same magazine there are color photos of wall paintings showing Achaemenid warriors from Tatarli tumulus, near Afyon, Turkey, including unique depiction of the Immortals. These might have been published, but don't know if the color versions have.
Laran aka Sait
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#37
Sharon,
Thanks for the comments!
I paint in Adobe Photoshop CS2....
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#38
Quote:By the way, if you are interested, in the same magazine there are color photos of wall paintings showing Achaemenid warriors from Tatarli tumulus, near Afyon, Turkey, including unique depiction of the Immortals.

...yes please ! Smile I am sure everyone interested in this thread would love to see them !

Quote: These might have been published, but don't know if the color versions have.

Well, I for one haven't seen them published, and certainly not in colour - really looking forward to seeing them posted here !!
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
Paullus Scipio/Paul McDonnell-Staff
Reply
#39
Quote:Don't know much about this, unfortunately. :? I'll try to learn though.

By the way, if you are interested, in the same magazine there are color photos of wall paintings showing Achaemenid warriors from Tatarli tumulus, near Afyon, Turkey, including unique depiction of the Immortals. These might have been published, but don't know if the color versions have.
I'll try to get a hold of a copy, but I doubt I'll succeed. If the magazine is in Turkish I doubt any Canadian library on the university interlibrary loan network has a copy. And I doubt I could buy a copy online from any site I can read. I'd be very greatful if you can find any other publication or get more images online.
Nullis in verba

I left this forum around the beginning of 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value
Reply
#40
Quote:
Quote:By the way, if you are interested, in the same magazine there are color photos of wall paintings showing Achaemenid warriors from Tatarli tumulus, near Afyon, Turkey, including unique depiction of the Immortals.

...yes please ! Smile I am sure everyone interested in this thread would love to see them !

Quote: These might have been published, but don't know if the color versions have.

Well, I for one haven't seen them published, and certainly not in colour - really looking forward to seeing them posted here !!

If you go to the website

http://www.museum-achemenet.college-de-france.fr/

Search for "battle" or "chariot." There are colour images and line drawings of some portions. The whole strip seems to show a funeral procession and a battle scene. The battle scene shows Persians (king in royal chariot, mounted archers) fighting Scythians (mounted archers, a few men on foot) while the funeral procession shows cavalrymen and Immortals carrying spears with apple-terminals.

Apparently, these are but two panels of a tomb that was entirely covered on the inside with them, and all were painted. Dating shows that this was the tomb of a man who was a veteran of the war against the Scythians (hence the decoration). The other beams are apparently still in Turkey and have not yet been published. The only reason these two are available is because they were sent to Munich in the 1960's, IIRC, and have been held in a museum there since.
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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#41
Thanks for the info, Ruben. According to the article the panels which are in Munich are from the eastern wall of the tumulus. There's also a drawing of northern wall panels, however. It has a depiction of dancing warriors with shields (apparently aspides), spears, crested helmets, greaves, and sickle swords.
The eastern wall paintings show a convoy of men and women. The focal points are two chariots. One is open, while the other is covered. In the open chariot there's a man with a white kandys and a brown tiara. Right behind his chariot walk three infantrymen who hold their spears pointing downwards. They are believed to represent the Immortals. Herodotus mentions them carry their spears in this manner when crossing Hellespont. These paintings are unique in this respect. Behind them come four cavalrymen and three more close the convoy.
The other panel shows a battle between Persians and Scythians.
Laran aka Sait
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#42
Great,Laran.Laudes!All this info is excellent!Unique finds.
(And once more Herodotus is right in another of these small details)
In the first picture you posted,what are the hoplite-like warriors with the round shields?
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#43
Laudes from me too Sait.
Very useful info.
Does ArkeoAtlas have a website?
Can you please provide more in fo in the "tatarli.jpg"?

Kind regards
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#44
Continued

Funeral panel drawing
[Image: ach5vg2.th.jpg]

Battle with Scythians drawing
[Image: ach6nl5.th.jpg]
Laran aka Sait
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#45
Quote:Does ArkeoAtlas have a website?

It does, ( www.arkeoatlas.com.tr ) but I think there's a problem with it.

Quote:Can you please provide more in fo in the "tatarli.jpg"?


These are paintings of the northern wall. On top are two animals sitting face to face. Since their heads are lost, it isn't known whether they are lions or sphynxes. Below them are four dancing warriors ( by their symmetrical poses and positions of their feet, it is decided that they are dancing, not fighting). Next is a frieze with three chariots and two men (the rest of the painting is lost). On the next frieze, there are six winged bulls and what seems to be an animal hunting scene. The last scene might depict either an audience or a meeting scene.

Quote:what are the hoplite-like warriors with the round shields?

I'm not sure, but IMO the dancing warriors might be Phrygians or Lykians. Compare with the now lost stele of Lykian warrior from Konya below. He is also armed with sickle sword and double-headed spear.
And below a bonus pic, a Lykian warrior from Kizilbel tumulus (From the same magazine Big Grin )
Laran aka Sait
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