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The Boiotian Shield
#37
Cole/Nikolaos wrote:
Quote:Even if the case is overstated, it doesn't diminish the significance of the Athenian victory over the Persians. Its a really big deal, and enough that a decade later the Spartans are willing to give precedence to the Athenians for it over their more traiditional allies, the Tegeans at Tegea. These are the same Spartans who doubt their own ability against the Persians enough to suggest swapping positions with the Athenians.

Sure....I would agree all this. Marathon was a big deal....the first rebuff of the Persian 'strangers' ( even if the Athenians propagandised a 'rafia' ( punitive raid) into an 'invasion', and certainly enough to impress even Sparta.

Quote:That being the case, I don't believe it is outrageous to theorize that hoplite warfare and the phalanx is still evolving at the end of the archaic period. And if it is still evolving, there is room to accept the possibility that there are holdovers to older styles of combat and older pieces of equipment.
...I have said all along that the 'Hoplite Revolution' was in the distant past, with the change of shield grip on circular shields from central grip to 'porpax' type, and that thereafter it was 'evolutionary' down to Hellenistic times. As to 'older styles of combat', certainly phalanx warfare was not universally adopted - the use of throwing spears and a looser order continued in the mountainous parts of Greece, Macedonia and the rest of the Balkans for instance. Aren't we here talking of the Hoplites of a city-state circa 500 B.C. though ? There is no archaeological evidence for the use of the 'Heroic' so-called Boeotian shield by Hoplites ( so far), and the artists confused depictions of it surely indicate that they were not familiar with it , as Paul B. suggested. They even conflated the design into a circular 'argive aspis' shape with a couple of cutouts. And clearly all these depictions are of ancient heroes, not contemporary real soldiers ( hence room for some rather fantastical elements such as the fancy dog etc crest supports - though equally fantastic crests did exist in the Mediterranean world)
In fact, archaeology suggests the opposite to your surmise - older equipment etc rapidly disappeared....the earlier helmet types, the thigh and upper arm armour, the bronze 'Bell' cuirass etc
Without wishing to be categorical, I think the weight of evidence runs against the 'Boeotian' shield existing in Greece c. 500 B.C. - disappointing perhaps for those like Christian/Kineas who want to wield one in re-enactment !! :wink:
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Messages In This Thread
The Boiotian Shield - by Ghostmojo - 07-18-2007, 08:31 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by hoplite14gr - 07-18-2007, 11:35 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Ghostmojo - 07-18-2007, 12:53 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by hoplite14gr - 07-18-2007, 01:04 PM
The Boiotian Shield - by Ghostmojo - 07-19-2007, 12:33 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by hoplite14gr - 07-19-2007, 07:19 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 08-11-2007, 03:01 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Matthew Amt - 08-11-2007, 03:12 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by hoplite14gr - 08-11-2007, 08:36 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 08-12-2007, 05:56 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by hoplite14gr - 04-01-2009, 02:13 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-01-2009, 04:05 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-02-2009, 12:13 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-02-2009, 01:03 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-02-2009, 01:09 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-02-2009, 05:33 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-02-2009, 05:48 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-02-2009, 10:20 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by MeinPanzer - 04-02-2009, 10:52 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-02-2009, 11:56 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by MeinPanzer - 04-03-2009, 12:41 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-03-2009, 01:28 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-03-2009, 01:18 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-03-2009, 02:07 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-03-2009, 03:55 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-04-2009, 01:08 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-05-2009, 04:30 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-06-2009, 12:01 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-06-2009, 01:50 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-06-2009, 07:43 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-06-2009, 10:25 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-07-2009, 12:08 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-07-2009, 05:12 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Kineas - 04-07-2009, 07:21 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-07-2009, 08:51 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-08-2009, 01:00 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-08-2009, 04:14 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Phalanx300 - 04-11-2009, 12:25 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-11-2009, 04:24 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Sean Manning - 04-11-2009, 05:58 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-11-2009, 10:45 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-14-2009, 04:59 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-14-2009, 07:03 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-14-2009, 10:24 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by caiusbeerquitius - 04-14-2009, 11:27 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-15-2009, 01:32 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-15-2009, 04:01 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by MeinPanzer - 04-15-2009, 06:13 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-15-2009, 06:32 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-15-2009, 04:03 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-16-2009, 04:54 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-16-2009, 10:18 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-17-2009, 10:26 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-17-2009, 10:42 AM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by nikolaos - 04-17-2009, 12:30 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by Paullus Scipio - 04-17-2009, 01:27 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-17-2009, 03:44 PM
Re: The Boiotian Shield - by PMBardunias - 04-17-2009, 08:24 PM

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