Which is the best deepeeka mid- to late 1c AD pugio?

[Caracalla]

Hello,

When reading and surfing, I have decided to buy a decent of the shelf pugio. I noticed that deepeeka has some improved models.
On the site of SOTW, there is even a model which is called "peroni's baby" . So, I guess it is a good model, no?

Some other suggestions?


Thanks,

Eve

[Peroni]

Its worth having a look in the Deepeeka marketplace section for the limited edition silver-inlaid pugio. :wink:

100 of these are being made with an even more limited edition with portions of the inlay in gold to look like the original plate.

It's a type 'B' pugio based on the Melun PLate from France.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

Salve,

The silver edition pugio is awesome but a wee bit expensive. If price is no option, then go for it! I'ts basically the best out there for sure.

If price is a consideration, and you want authentic then… wait until Deepeeka replaces their current pugio design, which is a bit too round and bulbous, the top pummel should be squared off not circular like most are and most of the Deepeeka current scabbards are missing the authentic round disk at the bottom. (I think the current "plain pugio" is the most authentic shape)

Gagan, the owner of Deepeeka, has now created a very authentic looking pugio with the silver inlayed model… the handle, blade, and scabbard are pretty much (IMHO) the most authentic and best looking out there. Gagan has said he’s considering replacing the current design and basing it on the silver inlayed version… just without all the inlay and all the silver.

He talks about it in this thread: http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=12070

If you really need one now... then I'd look at the Deepeeka Plain pugio, you could decorate it yourself based on original designs.
Part number: AH3264P Plain Pugio (Mainz-Weisenau): http://legvi.tripod.com/armamentarium/id243.html

Here are a few authentic designs that you 'could' consider replicating on the plain pugio (or you could just leave it plain)

[Gaivs Antonivs Satvrninvs]

Caracalla,
I can recommend the Deepeeka brass beaded pugio as a decent off the shelf item. Perfect? No. But good enough to get an approval from LegioXX
for some time. It does have the bulbous chape at the bottom of the scabbard,fits in your time frame and is in general a good one for the money. ( It's the one I use). Check out Matt's review in his site's things ok/things to avoid section.

[Crispvs]

Regarding the 'brass beaded' pugio, with Peronis' help Deepeeka have now done a reasonably accurate version of this dagger and sheath, where the beading has been soldered onto the sheath, as with the original from Leuwen, rather than embossed the way the old Deepeeka one was. If the code number for the item you are looking at has an 'N' at the end of it you should be reasonably safe. Otherwise you are best advised to avoid off the shelf pugiones. If you see something you like post a link or picture up and I'll give you my thoughts.

Crispvs

[Tarbicus]

Regarding the 'brass beaded' pugio, with Peronis' help Deepeeka have now done a reasonably accurate version of this dagger and sheath, where the beading has been soldered onto the sheath, as with the original from Leuwen, rather than embossed the way the old Deepeeka one was. If the code number for the item you are looking at has an 'N' at the end of it you should be reasonably safe. Otherwise you are best advised to avoid off the shelf pugiones. If you see something you like post a link or picture up and I'll give you my thoughts.

When was that done?

[Peroni]

Regarding the 'brass beaded' pugio, with Peronis' help Deepeeka have now done a reasonably accurate version of this dagger and sheath, where the beading has been soldered onto the sheath

Oh no they haven't! :wink: The more accurate pugio would be the plain one.
http://www.armamentaria.com/store/index ... ucts_id=39

The brass Leuwen pugio was not amended, but maybe it can go on the list for 2007 improvements(?)

[Tarbicus]

Would making the new plain pugio from brass, then applying the same kind of beading as seen on the Mouse & Loaf helmet, do the trick for the Leuwen pugio?

[Peroni]

It would certainly make it a LOT more accurate, but then you have to do the same to the grip plates too. If they were made to the same pattern as the new 'plain' grips it would be easier.

The original Leeuwen dagger is a lot more slender and longer than the Deepeeka model and the terminal expansion is not formed in the same way/shape, possibly making it more difficult to apply the beading on this section correctly.

Then you have the issue of the blade itself. The Leeuwen blade is more like the limited edition inlaid pugio in shape rather than the current single raised rib made now.

Here's the real Leeuwen pugio..
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... uwen-1.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... uwen11.jpg

[Tarbicus]

Well, we know they can do the blades, the beading, press the sheaths, and they can work with brass....

[Peroni]

It would mean them making a whole new set of press dies for the scabbard in this new shape.. It shouldn't be too difficult considering the hand-press they use. Just need to make new wooden dies.

My main concern is the fact that Deepeeka do not use solder on any of their items. Only brazing. The beaded wire on the Guttmann and brass Niedermoermter are only applied with strategically placed spots of brazing. A dagger sheath like this would definately need to be soldered along the entire length of the beading.

[Crispvs]

Thanks Peronis.

I hadn't realised that they had not amended that sheath after all (I suppose a baby in the house does distract one somewhat).

Those are very good pictures of the Leeuwen pugio by the way. Where DID you get them? You seem to have tapped into a source of pugio pictures unknown to me in the last few months.

I agree that the plain version you are stocking is probably the best version to go for. The only beef I have with it is the small rivets through the suspension loops, but considering the standard of the rest of the improvements to the piece, I thing these can be overlooked for the time being.

Therefore Caracalla, I agree that this is the pugio you should choose.

Crispvs

[Caracalla]

Thank you all for the usefull information :wink: .


Best,