LATIN

[griffin]

I believe all he is saying is that a Phi in Greek was pronounced as an aspirated 'p' and not as a 'f'.

Think tophat as opposed to elephant.

[Neuraleanus]

how big a factor is latin at re enactments? im trying, wish i had a study group here or more time on my own,

Salve fratri meo Romae

As it should be, Latin is becoming more and more important in roman reenactment. We always drill using latin commands.

A good way to learn latin is to take an on-line course such as that offered by the Academia Thules. I've just about finished latin II, waiting for the final exam, and I'm looking forward to take the next course in the sequence. Latin I and II cover all 40 chapters of Wheelock's Latin. Here is the link to their site:

[url:12cunoga]http://academiathules.dnsalias.org/moodle/mod/resource/view.php?id=21[/url]

There are also the latin forums at Textkit:

[url:12cunoga]http://www.textkit.com/greek-latin-forum/[/url]

[Tarbicus]

A handy Flash guide on how to pronounce latin, with the words clickable for the audio.

http://www.classicsnet.plus.com/readitr ... latin.html

[geala]

Hmm, Latin away, but we used to pronounce the Greek "phi" as "pf", not "p" or "f".

So I would name a Kataphractos a "catapfract", which is much more similar to the "catafract" than the ugly "catapract".

[Salvianus]

also, need a recommend on the best text for learning latin

I am very pleased with 'Teach Yourself Beginner's Latin' by George Sharpley, 2004, with 2 CDs of audio files, because: it is based on conversational Latin, it includes some Later Latin, with examples from the C5th spoken and it includes quotes from the classics as well as the Bible.

Teach Youself Beginner's Latin

I also like 'Learn Latin' by Peter Jones, as it uses the Bayeux Tapestry and humour, but it lacks the spoken aspect.

I find I need a Latin Dictionary as well, to widen my range.

[Iulus]

@Neuraleanus:

Salve fratri meo Romae

You probably mean: "Neuraleanus fratri romano suo salutem [dicit]" or "Salve,Frater mi (romane)"

@geala:

So I would name a Kataphractos a "catapfract", which is much more similar to the "catafract" than the ugly "catapract".

"Catapract" might be ugly,but it's the right pronunciation!

[Salvianus]

how big a factor is latin at re enactments?

Comitatus has always used the Latin drill commands from Maurice's C5th-6th Strategikon. These do not adhere to earlier theoretical standards of grammar (nor does, I understand, the graffiti of Pompeii).

For special events I have used Latin prayers based on the contemporary (for us!) Vulgate, somewhat inelegant & inconsistent in expressing what scholarship indicates was the original meaning, but good for formal speeches.

We sometimes throw in some conversational Latin in front of the public, but address them in modern English and not 'in role'.

I believe that the average legionarius of our period & unit would have spoken any of several Germanic languages & would have been expected to use Latin (albeit with indifferent attention to case and tense) regarding military matters, by reason of tradition and to maintain a common tongue within the army.

[Iulus]

We sometimes throw in some conversational Latin in front of the public, but address them in modern English and not 'in role'.

Yes,in my eyes that is the best you can do!

[Razor]

Think top-hat as opposed to ele-phant.

That's it :wink:

Thus GUY-us YOO-li-us KAY-sar (which helps you see how the Germans got Kaiser and the Russians Tsar from the same word).

And 'Tsar' comes from 'Caesar' but in later Latin the 'c' was no longer pronounced as 'k' but 'ts' like in todays Italian.
And an 's' between two vocals tends to disappear...
So: Tsesar > Tsar

[Neuraleanus]

@Neuraleanus: Quote:
Salve fratri meo Romae


You probably mean: "Neuraleanus fratri romano suo salutem [dicit]" or "Salve,Frater mi (romane)"

Ok, I forgot about the vocative. Tamen disco.

[Iulus]

Quid est laudandum!

[Salvianus]

in later Latin the 'c' was no longer pronounced as 'k' but 'ts' like in todays Italian.
And an 's' between two vocals tends to disappear...
So: Tsesar > Tsar

Would that be as early as 400A.D.?

Im always on the lookout for sources on C5th Latin structure, vocab & pronunciation - have you any recommendations?

[Susanna]

Nope, medieval and renaissance changed "c" to "z".

"ph" in ancient Greek is a softly pronunced "p".

I mean, get used to "kikero" and "pilosopi"... :lol:

We still say number "pi" not "fi". :roll:

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

And 'Tsar' comes from 'Caesar' but in later Latin the 'c' was no longer pronounced as 'k' but 'ts' like in todays Italian.
And an 's' between two vocals tends to disappear...
So: Tsesar > Tsar

There are other views. E.g., old-slavic "tsar" (царь) comes from sanskrit "sar" meaning defender, protector, shepherd, provider. The old-slavic word for "caesar" is "kesar'" (кесарь)

[Tarbicus]

Was phonetic Greek partially used to reconstruct latin pronunciation, where latin words and names are written down in Greek we can tell how the word was pronounced? Sure I read it here. :?