06-21-2007, 11:23 AM
Is there any reliable source for this Firma? I have not found any.
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
IIII FLavia firma- source for epithet Firma ???
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06-21-2007, 11:23 AM
Is there any reliable source for this Firma? I have not found any.
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
06-21-2007, 11:35 AM
It's usually shortened, but some inscriptions write it out in full, eg:
Belegstelle: CIL 03, 00201 (p 1228) = D 05864a Provinz: Syria Ort: Suq Wadi Barada Pro salute / Imp(eratorum) Aug(ustorum) Antoni/ni et Veri M(arcus) Vo/lusius Maximus / |(centurio) leg(ionis) XVI F(laviae) Firm(ae) / qui operi in/stit(u)it v(otum) s(olvit) Belegstelle: CIL 08, 05179 (p 1639) = ILAlg-01, 00536 Provinz: Africa proconsularis Ort: Kef Bezioun / Zattara Q(uinto) Domitio P(ubli) f(ilio) Q[u]ir(ina) / Hispano trib(uno) [mi]l(itum) / leg(ionis) XVI Flavia[e] / Firmae quaestori urb(ano) / d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) p(ecunia) p(ublica) Belegstelle: CIL 10, 01202 = CIL 09, *00674 = D 02660 Provinz: Latium et Campania / Regio I Ort: Avella / Abella N(umerio) Marcio / N(umeri) f(ilio) Gal(eria) / Plaetorio Celeri / quaest(ori) IIvir(o) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) VII / Gemin(ae) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) XVI Fl(aviae) Firm(ae) / donis donato a divo / Traian(o) bello Parthic(o) / corona murali torquib(us) / armillis phalaris |(centurioni) leg(ionis) II / Gall(icae) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) XIIII Gem(inae) Mart(iae) Victr(icis) / |(centurioni) leg(ionis) VII Cl(audiae) P(iae) F(idelis) |(centurioni) leg(ionis) I Adi(utricis) P(iae) F(idelis) p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) / eiusd(em) praeposit(o) numeror(um) / tendentium in ponto Ab/saro trib(uno) coh(ortis) III vig(ilum) / patron(o) colon(iae) / d(ecreto) d(ecurionum) Belegstelle: CIL 11, 01937 Provinz: Etruria / Regio VII Ort: Perugia / Perusia D(is) M(anibus) / [3] Verseni L(uci) f(ilii) Lem(onia) / Graniani tri[b(uni)] / coh(ortis) XXXII volunt(ariorum) / trib(uni) leg(ionis) XVI Fl(aviae) Firm(ae) / IIvir(i) Hispellatium / patrono municipi(i) / [3]arnat() vixit annis / XXXII fratri piissim[o] / Versenus Aper
06-21-2007, 12:06 PM
Thanks Jasper, as usual my question is confusing . I was asking about the reliable source for IIII Flavia not XVI Flavia. Besides some mistakes, I should call them mistakes if there is no full inscription IIII flavia firma, I have not found any inscription with this solution.
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
06-21-2007, 12:28 PM
Sorry Stefan, I should've read your threat title better.
There is nevertheless a good reason why you cannot find firm evidence for IIII Flavia Firma. That's because it's IIII Flavia Felix: Belegstelle: CIL 05, 07160 = D 02086 Provinz: Transpadana / Regio XI Ort: Bagienno M(arco) Coelio C(ai) f(ilio) / Cam(ilia) Clementi / mil(itavit) c(o)hort(e) VI pr(aetoria) / optioni evoc(ato) Aug(usti) / centurioni leg(ionis) / IIII Flav(iae) Felic(is) Mys(ia!) / superior(e) aras parentib(us) / suis et propinq(uis) t(estamento) f(ieri) i(ussit) / quod opus faciend(um) / curavit C(aius) Petronius / Firmus / scrib(sit!) C(aius) Pompeius Belegstelle: CIL 09, 00731 = EAOR-03, 00079 = AE 1991, 00513 = AE 1995, +00355 Provinz: Apulia et Calabria / Regio II Ort: Larino / Larinum [3]s Q(uinti) f(ilius) Clu(stumina) Capito / f[lam(en) divi] Titi patron(us) municipi(i) / IIII[vir viaru]m curandarum trib(unus) / mi(litum) [le]g(ionis) IIII Fl(aviae) Felicis quaestor{i} / amp[hi]theatrum testamento fieri / iussit Belegstelle: InscrIt-10-05, 00161 = AE 1908, 00220 Provinz: Venetia et Histria / Regio X Ort: Brescia / Brixia T(itus) Marcius / Omuncio / veter(anus) leg(ionis) IIII / Flaviae Felicis t(estamento) f(ieri) i(ussit)
06-21-2007, 01:25 PM
Yes. Right now I am trying to organize my database of inscriptions for IIII Flavia and I had to deal with this problem. And all of a sudden I realized that besides few respectable authors and some unreliable internet sources there is no evidence for giving the IIII flavia an epithet firma.
So to summarize IIII FLavia was Felix, Antoniniana, Severiana Alexandriana, Gordiana, Galliena, pia constans (this one is very dubious - Ritterling PW)or most of the time simply Flavia . If I find any other I'll post it. update: antoniniana
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
06-21-2007, 01:55 PM
Quote:And all of a sudden I realized that besides few respectable authors and some unreliable internet sources there is no evidence for giving the IIII flavia an epithet firma. Most of those internet sources state that IIII Macedonica was reconstituted under the name IIII Flavia Firma. IIII Macedonica was reconstituted as IIII Flavia Felix. XVI Gallica was reconstituted as XVI Flavia Firma. Both were reconstituted, and got the new name, after the Batavian rebellion. So, any website that mentions IIII Flavia Firma probably mixed up those two legions
[size=75:18gu2k6n]- Roy Aarts[/size]
07-05-2007, 02:32 PM
That life is not so simple shows this inscription: Dura Europos
I(ovi) O(ptimo) M(aximo) D(olicheno) s(acrum) / pro sal(ute) M(arci) / Ant(oni) Valen/tini eiusq(ue) / omnium / |(centurionis) princ(ipis) ve/xill(ationum) leg(ionum) IIII / et IVX(!) F(laviae) f(irmae) Anto/(ninianae) / Agat(h)ocles / lib(ertus) eius v(otum) s(olvit) / l(ibens) a(nimo) Gent(iano) et Bas/so co(n)s(ulibus) How would you solve it? loooooooool. This is why I love Roman Culture. source - heidelberg database - AE 1954, 0264. besides one inscription that is unique as far as I know: Lugdunum AE 1955, 0211. Ti(berio) Cl(audio) Ti(beri) fil(io) Palati[na] / Secundino L(ucio) Stat(io) Ma[ce]/doni p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) IIII Fl(aviae) fide[lis] / trib(uno) coh(ortis) I vig(ilum) trib(uno) coh(ortis) XI / [urb(anae) trib(uno) coh(ortis) IX p]raetor(iae) [&
Stefan Pop-Lazic
by a stuff demand, and personal hesitation
07-05-2007, 03:47 PM
Quote:... ve/xill(ationum) leg(ionum) IIII / et IVX(!) F(laviae) f(irmae) Anto/(ninianae) ... (AE 1954, 0264)Nice! The stone-cutter has saved himself the trouble of two different sets of cognomina (a) by adding only one set, and (b) by abbreviating it so that it can stand for either F(laviae) f(irmae) or F(laviae) f(elicis). Clever! (I like the mirror-image numeral IVX.) Quote:AE 1955, 0211: ... p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) IIII Fl(aviae) fide[lis] ...Virtually the same inscription can be found at ILS 1339 (= CIL V 867), but without the FIDE[lis]: Ti(berio) Claudio / Ti(beri) fil(io) Pal(atina) / Secundino / L(ucio) Statio Macedon[i] / p(rimo) p(ilo) leg(ionis) IIII F(laviae) F(elicis) trib(uno) coh(ortis) / prim(ae) vig(ilum) trib(uno) coh(ortis) XI / urban(ae) trib(uno) coh(ortis) VIIII p[r(aetoriae)] / p(rimo) p(ilo) iterum praef(ecto) leg(ionis) II Tra[ianae] proc(uratori) XX her(editatum) proc(uratori) provinc(iarum) / Lugdunens(is) et Aquitan[i(ae)] / a rationib(us) Aug(usti) praef(ecto) an[non(ae)] / L(ucius) Saufeius Iulianu[s] / amico optim[o] Curious, indeed. (And a nice example of a primipilaris career. ) |
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