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Corbridge A Breastplates - to cross or not cross diagonally?
#26
Quote:This is really useful Matt, but you also start to compose a counter argument. If your suggesting that the crossing angle in picture 5 is representative; look at the bucle mounts :!: They won't work properly. If this was a design feature, surely the buckles would be mounted differently.

The buckles work just fine as I mentioned previously as a counter to that very suggestion. The belt is leather is flexible, and there's no issue with it rotating around the point connection of it to the spike of the buckle. Would it make more sense to us that the fittings be mounted to account for the angle? Sure, but that doesn't mean the Romans didn't have a different idea or maybe another reason we haven't thought of. The fact remains that it works, and although there is some stress on the fittings, the commonly-seen damage to these very fittings is consistent with the stress an angle would put on them.

Quote:If you take a look closer at picture 3 you can see a getle curve across the back (left to right), representative of an average upper torso. and the fit in picture 3 doesn't look too far out.

And if you take a closer look at picture 4 you'll see that forcing the breast plates this way causes the joint to the mid-collar plates to bend IN at the neckline- that's simply never going to fit a human being :lol: The gentle curve across the back can be achieved the crossed way, I simply didn't bother to bend the paper because that's not the area being considered here. A bend there increases the amount of cross the breastplates adopt actually.

Quote:Matt, how do your seg's hang when worn, with a suitable subarmalis? The relative plate position is going to be different when the armour is being worn when compared with not surely?

Well since I went back to the originals and realized just how they're put together, mine hang just like I point out above:

[Image: PDR_0040b.jpg]

The dimensions of the plates in the photo are taken from Cuirass 3 of the Corbridge Hoard- and that's about 1cm thick sheepskin under the collar.

However the question here is about how the real thing worked- not this or that modern maker's armour. We can affect the fit by simply changing the angle of the connections and the size of the plates, which is probably what accounts for people finding that they don't have to cross the breast plates much or even have them meet horizontally.

Quote:I'm not suggesting the there is no diagonal crossing of the plates, I just don't think it was as pronounced as your suggesting. Also back to Barry's original point. The plates shouldn't be designed (altered from the originals) to ensure this cross, but make them to the pattern and take it from there.

I'm not actually suggesting anything about how pronounced the cross is- that's really cuirass 1 from the Corbridge Hoard, not just my version of it. And the amount of cross is only what's necessary to bring the two ends of the neck curve together, no more. The angle of the plates is the same whether they overlap this much or less- it's certainly not necessary that the ends of the neck curve meet, but it's desirable I would think. And it's DEFINITELY not an issue of altering the design to ensure the cross, it's actually probably more the other way around- that modern reproductions often are altered to reduce the cross. As I mentioned previously, of the 6 upper body sections in the Hoard, some require a little less angle for the breast plates to meet, some rather more, but cuirass 1 is a good average example.

I would suggest to anyone who disagrees should try to come up with a way to make the ORIGNAL Corbridge artifacts adopt any different conformation than the one I've found that they would, without altering any connections- make the same cutouts I've made and play with them so you can see just what the shapes and layout will and won't allow. Photos I post may not convince you, but seeing for yourself what is possible will. :wink:
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Messages In This Thread
lorica - by brennivs - tony drake - 06-19-2007, 10:23 PM
lorica seg - by brennivs - tony drake - 06-21-2007, 07:37 PM
Re: lorica seg - by Matt Lukes - 06-22-2007, 12:03 AM
Re: Corbridge A Breastplates - to cross or not cross diagonally? - by Matt Lukes - 06-22-2007, 02:13 PM
corbridge A - by brennivs - tony drake - 06-24-2007, 09:39 PM
Re: corbridge A - by Matt Lukes - 06-26-2007, 08:17 PM

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