Philip of Macedonia Illustration

[Johnny Shumate]

Gioi,
That's what I had in mind without the belt...
Johnny

[Paullus Scipio]

As the person who did the research for that illustration and wrote the caption, I can shed some light on it........
The illustration was based on Plutarch's description of Iphicrates reforms. Plutarch anachronistically refers to Iphicrates replacing Hoplite "mail" with lighter body armour. Since I knew that Hoplites wore tube-and-yoke corselet, often augmented with scales etc, I had to think of a 'lighter' alternative..........and came up with the quilted linen thorakes. The illustration was based on Herodotus' description, Attic pottery depictions of Persians in what appear to be tube-and-yoke quilted corselets and what appears to be a red quilted corselet from the Alexander mosaic.
Since the particular corselet in question is Persian also ( a trophy), I'd have to say you have hit the nail right on the head, Johnny !!!

[MeinPanzer]

As the person who did the research for that illustration and wrote the caption, I can shed some light on it........
The illustration was based on Plutarch's description of Iphicrates reforms. Plutarch anachronistically refers to Iphicrates replacing Hoplite "mail" with lighter body armour. Since I knew that Hoplites wore tube-and-yoke corselet, often augmented with scales etc, I had to think of a 'lighter' alternative..........and came up with the quilted linen thorakes.

Cornelius Nepos' Life of Iphicrates, 1:

[Iphicrates] changed the character of their armour (loricarum), giving them linen in place of bronze or chain armour (pro sertis atquae linteas dedit).

I think it's clear that by lightening their armour, he changed it from bronze muscled and scale composite cuirasses to linothorakes, not from linothorakes to something lighter.

The illustration was based on Herodotus' description, Attic pottery depictions of Persians in what appear to be tube-and-yoke quilted corselets and what appears to be a red quilted corselet from the Alexander mosaic.
Since the particular corselet in question is Persian also ( a trophy), I'd have to say you have hit the nail right on the head, Johnny !!!

All we know from the literature is that the cuirass was 2-ply. Since Persians are actually more often shown wearing regular linothorakes than quilted cuirasses, I would think it more likely that the cuirass Alexander took to using was regular.

[Johnny Shumate]

Paul,
Did you write that article for John Warry on page 67? That is one of the best books on ancient warfare in bookstores..! The illustrations and diagrams are great!

Gioi,
Thanks for posting all the pics....

Was red a popular color for a linothorax in the 4th century..?

Johnny

[hoplite14gr]

It is generally thought that from Alexander's era and later, the Hellenistic powers had the resources to dress their troops more elaborately.

Only certain archaic clans or rich individuals could do equip themselves similarly in the previous times.
See our reconstruction of a hoplite of the Phylaidae clan in the "show us your Greek artwork" section

Unquilted non metal armor appears parallel to bell cuirass in the "Sifnian Treasure" in Delphoi and thats 7th century B.C.

Kind regards

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I have seen purple linothorakes,pink linothorakes with a bit red and white,but not a deep red one.I'd go for a white as a base and ptobably with designs of other colors(also shown in one of Gioi's pics).
Alexander was wearing a Persian linothorax that was already used in battle.It had to be something exceptional to wear it!Probably a Persian Satrap's armour...This kind of quilted thorax was shown only in regular soldiers in vases and in Darious' servants and charioteers in the Alexander mosaic.
http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... rsian3.jpg
I was alway wondering what this is supposed to Indicate.I belt or part of the linothorax?
http://www.aeria.phil.uni-erlangen.de/p ... anth29.JPG
http://www.aeria.phil.uni-erlangen.de/p ... anth35.JPG
http://www.aeria.phil.uni-erlangen.de/p ... anth35.JPG
Most probably the latter...
Khaire
Giannis

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Here are some interesting photos.Anyone who thought that Philip's iron helmet was uniquie in his construction,was wrong!The one I post was found inItaly.Even the crest holder has exactly the same "hem" as in Philip's.But it doesn'r have cheek pieces.And probably never had.
http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... ICTYPE.jpg
http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... PEside.jpg
http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... PEback.jpg
And if you're intended to draw Darius as well,this helm found in Iran,would be appropriate.Darius is depicted wearing similar head coverings in some vases of the 4th century.
Oh,and a hybrid helmet.Companions were prefering boeotian,Macedonians were prefering phrygian,so here what come up:
http://s118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... cu_aur.jpg
Khaire
Giannis

[Paullus Scipio]

Thanks for the correction, Ruben !!
Must have had Plutarch on the brain, talking about Alexander.
The reference was to Cornelius Nepos ( Roman writer), as you have correctly quoted.The other reference for Iphicrates equipment reforms is Diodorus 15.44. Cornelius gets a couple of details wrong, not just the reference to "chain" armour (BTW, an ingenious explanation to interpret "chain" as scale, but surely he would have said "squamata" if that is what he meant? ).Cornelius says he 'doubled' the length of the spears, which would make them the length of Makedonian sarrissa, 14-16 feet/5 metres and unmanageable with one hand.Diodorus says a more manageable spear (doratos) increase "by half" and sword (xiphos) "twice as long".Alas, Diodorus doesn't mention body armour.
The point is that if Cornelius is right,despite the anachronism, his meaning is clear namely that linen corselets replaced heavier metal ones, or linen-and-metal ones - and your guess that they might have been standard tube-and-yoke corselets is as good as mine ! (The other reason for showing a quilted corselet was editorial - the editor wanted something different, as two colour plates showed standard corselets already.)
Meinpanzer:
"All we know from the literature is that the cuirass was 2-ply. Since Persians are actually more often shown wearing regular linothorakes than quilted cuirasses, I would think it more likely that the cuirass Alexander took to using was regular"
What is the reference to 2-ply? Do you mean Dio Cassius' description of Caracalla's Roman imitation phalangites who are described as having "raw ox-hide helmets" and "3-ply" corselets?
"Since Persians are actually more often shown wearing regular linothorakes than quilted cuirasses, I would think it more likely that the cuirass Alexander took to using was regular"
Definitely not, I'm afraid. Plutarch"Life of Alexander" 32. says "a thickly quilted linen corselet, which had been among the spoils captured at Issus" (penguin translation - which btw also describes the item made by the Rhodian Helicon as a cloak ,not a belt, which he habitually wore in battle - maybe someone with better classical greek could check the original ? )
Giannis:
"Since Persians are actually more often shown wearing regular linothorakes than quilted cuirasses, I would think it more likely that the cuirass Alexander took to using was regular". Not so - see Plutarch's description above. In the "Issus mosaic" the men who surround Darius - his charioteer, the man holding the horse, and the cavalryman with his hand on his head all wear red corselets, which appear to be quilted, edged in white. These are "servants" only in the sense that all the Great King's subjects are his "servants" - they are likely nobles, for example the cavalryman wears a gold torque.
Love your photo references, Giannis, they are very good ! Tks for posting them. The Phrygian iron helmet without cheek pieces is paralled by a similar one in bronze, with two plume tubes (for feathers? ) at the peak, which also seems never to have had cheek pieces.
To Johnny :-
Yes, I wrote all the stuff in "boxes" and the captions and John Warry wrote the main text. All the illustrations were based on my research and sketches for the various artists. The coloured figure plates were all done by my good friend, Jeffrey Burn.
To get back to Alexander's trophy Persian quilted corselet, captured at Issus, one could hardly get a better source than the "Issus mosaic" white edged red ones worn by noble Persians....... that has to be 'the One!'

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Johny,this is the other gorget almost identical to the one from Vergina.This is found in Derveni.Sorry for the bad quality of picture,but they didn't allow flash in the museum.You see it is also iron covered in gold.


Does anybody have the ancient text,I may be able to translate that part,because belt and cloak have a slight difference!!!hock: Not to mention that a cloak is far more logical than belt...
Khairete
Giannis

[hoplite14gr]

Composite horshmans armor 540 B.C. Hermitaz St Petersburg:
http://www.hermitagemuseum.org/fcgi-bin ... From=quick

Kind regards

[Kallimachos]

I just saw your illustration today Johnny. FINALLY - really great and thanks a lot!!!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Hey,Kurt,I was thinking about you!Doday you returned home and you didn't forget you friends here :lol:
Khaire
Giannis

[Mythos_Ruler]

That's a fantastic reproduction! Where did you get it?

[Paullus Scipio]

The reproduction is also rather inaccurate - e.g the figure running alongside Alexander in the mosaic (only part of head survives) is wearing a soft Macedonian kausia, not a helmet,and may be in front of rather than behind Alexander's horse..
Also, it should be noted that in the original, both Alexander and Darius' clothes are light grey stones. Originally, it is almost certain that these were painted purple (you can't get naturally purple coloured stone !! )

[Uwe Bahr]

Hi Gioi,

BTW: I had made a small discovery

Astonishing - that I didn't notice that earlier ... :wink:

And thankYou for the reproduction picture, it' s better than the small picture in the 'I want it, I want it'-topic. Of course it is not a very very correct reproduction, but I like it too, because the artist really made respectable efforts to complete the missing scenes. The only feature that disturbes is the fact that even the Greek are wearing that Darius-like (modern) mustache.

I can email you the large size.

Do You still have a larger size of the reproduction above? hock:
And if, could You - may-be - mail it to me, too? :oops:

Greets - Uwe