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Philip of Macedonia Illustration
#31
It'd be cool to see your take on the Alexander mosaic, but pump it up, Shumate-style. Smile
Michael D. Hafer [aka Mythos Ruler, aka eX | Vesper]
In peace men bury their fathers. In war men bury their sons.
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#32
Different gorgets have been found in mAcedonian tombs.In Philips tomb at least one was found,that was gold covered and I suppose it's like what you call "Thracian" gorgets.I think I've seen at leats another such gorget.
This one was found in Derveni I think,and I saw it in the Thessaloniki museum:
[Image: dervenibpectoral.jpg]
It was bronze plated covered in gold(as seen in some places)and sewn on leather.Actually I don't remember if the leather was preserved or restored,but I think that some of it was preserved and the rest was restored.
What I connot imagine,is the fine belt,that is described as part of the armour and not decoration...The only belts I know of are the Etruscan ones and those mentioned by Homer!What kind of belt would be worn over the armour?
Gioi,I don't think the Alexander mosaic shows a gorget.It is placed under the showlder pieces and does not protect the neck at all.
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#33
That gorget is very interesting!
Do you think the "belt" could be pteruges since they both went around the waist..?
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#34
Here's a painting with a gorget and with Philip's cuirass covered in linen...
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o118 ... panion.jpg
The gorget in Philips tomb was gold but not plated.
Pteruges I find it unlikely to be the belt mentioned.Philip's pteruges had gold on them,like the pic above,but how could they be of higher craftmanship than the rest of the armour?I'm thinking something like this:
[Image: bronze_breastplate_belt3.jpg]
But I don't know if it was worn over the armour.And also,Alexander is mentioned to have been wearing a Persian quilted thorax...
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#35
Perhaps I found it!
[Image: cavalier.jpg]
Belt over linothorax!It is from an italian grave,but what else could a "belt" be,and so dacorated that was so better than the rest of the armour?
Khairete
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#36
No pictorial evidence supports bronze belt over armor. Italian warriors wore them with pactorals if we belive grave frescos.
Kind regards
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#37
Is this Etruscan or other Italiotic?

Kind regards
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#38
Yes Gioi,all this is fine,but what significant can a belt have,compared to the rest of the King's armour?Such a leather would be of leather or fabric.Even with metal reenforcements,would a thin belt couch the eye so much as to spend so many lines describing it and its origins?
Khaire
Giannis
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#39
I thing that Helicon(Ελικών) was a town.Does that make sence?
Giannis K. Hoplite
a.k.a.:Giannis Kadoglou
a.k.a.:Thorax
[Image: -side-1.gif]
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#40
Wow-That is some neat stuff..!
The wall painting seems to prove that a metal belt could be worn over a linen thorax...
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#41
Yes.....but in Southern Italy, rather than Greece or Macedonia.
In Southern Italy, particularly in rural/mountain parts, these metal belts were a symbol of masculinity, and were worn by all warriors, and perhaps all male adults. So much so that they are shown impaled on spear-points as trophies.
In depicting Alexander, it might be better to show something known rather than the wilder speculations.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#42
Oh yes-I totally agree...
It's better to side with caution than with speculations in doing historical illustrations...
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#43
Here is a ROUGH sketch of Alex's armour. Phrygian helmet, quilted thorax(?), gorget, belt under armour(?).......
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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#44
Quote:Officer from Magnesia:

seems to wear a small belt below the sach... its from Turkey, I would like to find the real sculpture.

also I. Head shows 2 Italiotic with wide belts & cuirass but the reference he gives is other from history.

[Image: sachbelt.jpg]

This is from a frieze showing an amazonomachy from the temple of Artemis at Magnesia on the Maeander. He wears an officer's sash which is wrapped around his waist twice and not a separate belt.

Quote:Here is a ROUGH sketch of Alex's armour. Phrygian helmet, quilted thorax(?), gorget, belt under armour(?).......

What evidence did you base the quilted linothorax on?
Ruben

He had with him the selfsame rifle you see with him now, all mounted in german silver and the name that he\'d give it set with silver wire under the checkpiece in latin: Et In Arcadia Ego. Common enough for a man to name his gun. His is the first and only ever I seen with an inscription from the classics. - Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian
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#45
Look at page 67 in John Warry's book,"Warfare in the Classical World". Warry states this style of armour was popular during the 4th century BC. Not sure where he gets his evidence...
Johnny
Johnny Shumate
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