Balteus Terminal Fabrication

[griffin]

I'm working on my first balteus, and I thought I would ask for some input from the forum. I re-enact a Legion during the Dacian Wars, and I wanted some input on how I should construct my belt terminals.

I've got an archaeological find as a guide; it can be found in M.C. Bishop's article on the Imperial Apron in JRMES.

Should I create a sandwich of metal to cover the end of the terminal, or should I just cut out my terminal and rivet it onto the leather apron strap with a washer on the back.

Here's a picture of some of my musings. My diagram should show how I would sandwich the end of the strap with metal. I would make a double terminal that would fold over in the middle.

[brennivs - tony drake]

The originol looks like a one piece cast with the rivets cast on .However if you make the plate then make the 2 decorative studs as rivets then just put square washers on the back, then add terminal. Also this might be better in Reconstuction section
Regards Brennivs

[griffin]

Thanks for the feedback. I will have to do a search for decorative studs that would be suitable.

I thought about posting to the re-enactment and reconstruction forum, but I selected the wrong one. If a moderator reads this, please move it. thanks.

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Here's how I usually do them:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/apron.jpg

The strap end is a folded piece, but the dangling terminal itself is one layer. The originals seem to be cast, with a little blob on the tip but the body being very thin, as if a thicker cast was hammered out. Then the tab at the top is just folded over.

I use .015" brass sheet for the strap ends, and c. .032" for the terminals. You already know about the Legio XX site, yes?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/balteus.html

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/

Good luck!

Matthew

[griffin]

I already know about the LEGIO XX site. It's a great resource for re-enacting, although it's been a while since I've leafed through it. I should go re-read it soon.

[griffin]

I've continued my progress on the terminals. I've got them cut out of brass, and they are more or less ready to attach. I need to file them down a bit on the edges and drill holes for the rivets.

[caiusbeerquitius]

The Originals you are looking at were cast, however, not cut from sheet metal.

[Magnus]

Not a big deal, since they're not direct replicas of them anyway.

[caiusbeerquitius]

But then, where´s the point in making them? wink:

[Primvs Pavlvs]

But then, where´s the point in making them? wink:

Not everyone has the ability to make exact reproductions. ie casting equipment.

[AntonivsMarivsCongianocvs]

But then, where´s the point in making them?

Hi,

I can only really speak for myself but, I guess we all do our best to reproduce our equipment as best as possible.

For example, with my officer’s impression…. I need a Roman Style Gorgon, two facing Gryphons, a candelabra, and a Romulus & Remus suckling Lupa appliqués to decorate my lorica.

Now, no one sells them for less than $200 each and the correct accurate way to have made them would have been to carve a negative image into stone with a hammer & chisel, melt down a few gold bars and pour the molten metal in... But I can’t do that or obviously afford that, it’s just a wee bit beyond my abilities so I had to go with a more modern equivalent... cold casting.

link from old RAT

[Magnus]

But then, where´s the point in making them? wink:

Well, plenty as I can see it. I'm not anal retentive when it comes to exact copies, if someone wants to make something in my group that is a roman design, but using it in a different manner, so be it. I won't allow anachronisms, but in this case for example, where a construction method is the only issue and to me it's extremely minor, I'm all for it.

Helps me sleep better at night.

[Peroni]

The apron strap ends shown in Mike Bishop's Military Apron article are from Tekije.

Reproductions of these same strap ends are available already if you decide not to make your own. They are cast. :wink:

http://www.armamentaria.com/store/index ... ucts_id=59

[caiusbeerquitius]

Yup, that´s what I think. They are available, not really expensive and they are "correct".

they're not direct replicas of them anyway.

where´s the point in making them? wink:

That´s what I meant. Why aren´t you making direct replicas?
I am quite aware that not everyone can cast. But that´s not what I meant. Why spending time on producing "incorrect" items?

For example, with my officer’s impression…. I need a Roman Style Gorgon, two facing Gryphons, a candelabra, and a Romulus & Remus suckling Lupa appliqués to decorate my lorica.

Now, no one sells them for less than $200 each and the correct accurate way to have made them would have been to carve a negative image into stone with a hammer & chisel, melt down a few gold bars and pour the molten metal in... But I can’t do that or obviously afford that, it’s just a wee bit beyond my abilities so I had to go with a more modern equivalent... cold casting.

Erm... you NEED it? I´d rather say you WANT it, because that is the impression you want to make. You could probably go along with a museum-quality reconstruction light infantryman impression by spending the same money as you do for you officer´s impression.

[Magnus]

That´s what I meant. Why aren´t you making direct replicas?
I am quite aware that not everyone can cast. But that´s not what I meant. Why spending time on producing "incorrect" items?

I thought I explained it in my previous post when I said: "Well, plenty as I can see it. I'm not anal retentive when it comes to exact copies, if someone wants to make something in my group that is a roman design, but using it in a different manner, so be it. I won't allow anachronisms, but in this case for example, where a construction method is the only issue and to me it's extremely minor, I'm all for it. "

Like I said, I'm not completely anal retentive when it comes to adapting roman designs or styles when reproducing gear. My unit is not a walking museum. Close in some regards, but I only push the envelope in some areas. This isn't one of them. We're hobbyists, and my group members are subject to my own policies, not the status quo of some people who tend to be too much "by the book".

The only time I make exception to that is when there is little or no evidence of something, and people decide to utterly make it up. But saying that a design, especially concerning something that was a stylistic choice could only be cast and not made of sheet is going overboard, in my opinion. And since I'm the group leader, my opinion in this case is the one that counts, no-one elses. 8)