Weight of arms and armor

[Hibernicus]

Sean, I still think your stuff is too heavy! The weights of surviving original items just don't add up to that much.

Matt, which stuff?

Segmentata at about 18lbs
Scutum at about 16
Pilum weigh in at 2 - 2.25, each

Sure, we could strip the 2 valli off the sarcina... but that's only 4 lbs
Baubles.. ounces
Firestarter.. ounces
Dice..
Lunch/snack bag on the belt.. 6-8 ounces
Net bag on the sarcina with apples, loaf of bread, chunk of cheese and a string of sausages.. about 5 pounds

Please, go for it! Maybe I got something wrong.

[Matthew Amt]

Matt, which stuff?

Segmentata at about 18lbs
Scutum at about 16
Pilum weigh in at 2 - 2.25, each

Frankly, I think the segmentata and scutum both weighed LESS than 15 pounds each. But even at your weights, that's only about 38 pounds. Add 3 or 4 for the helmet (based on those originals that I've seen weights for), and call it 2 pounds each for gladius w/ scabbard and belt w/ pugio, and it's still 46 pounds, not the 55 that you said.

Lunch/snack bag on the belt.. 6-8 ounces

Just curious if there are any descriptions or depictions of Romans carrying anything on their military belt besides sword or dagger?

Net bag on the sarcina with apples, loaf of bread, chunk of cheese and a string of sausages.. about 5 pounds

Fine, that's just part of your food. The sources say they're supposed to carry about 3 days worth of rations, in general, and calculations by folks like Davies (and comparisons to rations of later eras) says around 2 to 3 pounds of food per day, at most. Doesn't matter if it's all hardtack or a nice mix of sausage, bread, fruit, beans, oil, salt, seasonings, parsley, and dried ice cream, or just 9 pounds of rock. You have a tendency to throw out details like "string of sausages" as if they are a documentable part of Roman military rations--been a while since I read up on this topic but I thought I remembered things like salt beef? Again, just curious. Naturally I have no objection to "equivalent" foods being eaten on marches and camping trips, particularly if the weight is about the same (IF one of the goals is to carry authentic weight). But if the initial question was just about the weight, I figure it's best to stick to the known facts and avoid embellishment.

Not ranting or meaning to nit-pick, here.

Matthew

[Hibernicus]

Matt Amt: Not ranting or meaning to nit-pick, here

Not at tall, Matt. This is good conversation!

Matt: Just curious if there are any descriptions or depictions of Romans carrying anything on their military belt besides sword or dagger?

Not that I know of. But, its nice having a utility knife handy and a bag of "lunch"... "canteen" too.

The scutum we're making weigh in at 16-17lbs. Larger than the Dura and a tad thicker. Subtle or minor variations occur when different materials are used forthe body of the scutum, edging and umbo, also thickness of rawhide covering. Also depends up on how much base material is planed away. Its not difficult to leave an extra pound on. Also subtle variations in size (width and height) add or subtract weight. (our old 3-ply luan weighed 20lbs)

Segmentata. Mine weighs 18. Some of our guys have segs weighing closer to 22, some nearer 14.. Mine: 48" chest, combination of 18 and 16 gauges.

Matt: and it's still 46 pounds, not the 55 that you said.

But add in clothes, balteus militare, footgear, "canteen" and variations in weight of other gear..

Battle gear:
clothes 4lb (tunica, feminalia, udones, subarmalis, subligarium, "sash", focale)
helmet 4lb (with liner and strapping)
Seg 18lb
scutum 16lb (without cover)
gladius/pugio with respective belts: 4lb
pilum x2 4lb
caliga 4lb
balteus militare 1.25lb
lunch .5lb
"canteen" with water 1.5lbs
misc: utility knife, leather thong for repairs... <.5lb

= 57.75

[scythius]

Matt Amt wrote:

Does every man really need a fire starting kit, dice, and "baubles for the ladies"?

I think that every man would have a fire kit. Moany would have dice.

Baubles for ladies?

Just the ones that want to. um 'worship at the Temple of Ve3nus'?

[Hibernicus]

Scithius probably has the best bauble in Leg IX HSPA... it's a redeemable bauble, a replica of a brothel token...

[scythius]

Scithius probably has the best bauble in Leg IX HSPA... it's a redeemable bauble, a replica of a brothel token...

I got a couple others I won at dicing, and I'm soooo gonna use 'em when we get back to Deva.

You're going to have tie a rope around my waist, and use a... no, make that TWO conturburnia to drag me out of the knock-shop!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, if modern body armour is so heavy, they should adopt a segmentata, made of titanium! Look cool too! :lol: :lol:

[Matt Lukes]

The segmentata I recently sent to Tarbicvs weighed (I think it was) 9.985kg packed, so subtracting a bit for the box and padding, I'd think it was probably about 9.25kg. It is one of multiple thicknesses of plate as well (16, 18 and 20), just like the real thing was, and although Roman iron plate is reported to be remarkably uniform in thickness, I'd think there's enough variation among artifacts that the use of modern thicknesses probably doesn't affect the issue significantly since they fall within the limits. Granted, however, Jim's a robust guy and the armor was sized for him so would probably be near the upper end of the weight range.