Rhomphaia 2

[Dan Z]

It suddenly occurred to me that I have not posted a picture of my second rhomphaia. Before I do, let me summarize my first post:

Rhomphaia fall into 2 basic categories:

(1) Type 1 - short rhomphaia; weapon is about 3 feet long with the length evenly divided between the grip and the blade. The blade has a wedge shaped cross-section and the tang has a rectangular cross-section.

(2) Type 2 - long rhomphaia; weapon is roughly between 4 to 6 feet in length with grip taking up 2/5 the total length and the blade taking up the remaining 3/5. The blade cross section is T-shaped except for the last 6 to 8 inches back from the tip which is wedge shaped. The tang has an I-beam cross-section except for the last 4 to 5 inches from the back of the weapon which has a rectangular cross-section.

To this we may add two sub-types:

(1) subtype A - straight rhomphaia; the spine of the weapon runs straight along the entire long axis of the weapon

(2) subtype B - bent rhomphaia; the spine of the weapon runs straight for 2/3 of the total length starting from the back end of the grip, at the 2/3 point the blade deflects downward about 10 to 15 degrees and then runs straight to the tip.

Essentially then we can place rhomphaia into one of four categories: Type 1A short and straight, Type 1B short and bent, Type 2A long and straight, and Type 2B long and bent.

I have seen pictures of a reproduction rhomphaia that has a lovely compound curve running the length of the spine. While it is very sexy looking, none of the pictures and archeological drawings I have seen of rhomphaia are curved like that. The “curvedâ€

[Et tu brute]

Very nice, how easy are they to wield?

[Dan Z]

They are down right dreamy to be honest. People tend to be very surprised at how nice the balance is on the big one. 8)

Speaking of which, here are the pics of big one:

First the grip - I need to do some more work on this, I was sidetracked by the saxes :roll:


Next is the guard area with the mysterious ring. We aren't sure exactly what that ring is for - most likely for a sling though.


And here is the deflection point:

[Et tu brute]

Great pics! How heavy are they? That ring is a bit strange, but like you say it would be useful as a sling, considering the size of the Rhompaia.

[Dan Z]

And here is the tip:


You can see the point where the cross-section of the blade changes from a T-shape to wedge shaped. If you are thinking that this creates a plane of weakness where the blade is more likely to break...you are right. quite a few have been found with the blades broken just beyond where the T-shape ends.

Another place where the long straight rhomphaia tend be broken is just behind the forward grip projection. The long bent rhomphaia do not tend to be broken here so either the bend changes the distribution of the forces acting on blade enough to keep the grips from breaking or it is just random chance that the straight blade grips are broken and the bent blade grips are not.

[Et tu brute]

Do we know the reason why the blade goes into the T shape? It seems rather needless really, and is only making the blade weaker.

[Dan Z]

To be honest I don't remember how much they weigh. I can tell you that I looked up the densities for low carbon steel and high carbon iron and then did the math to compare weights. My low carbon steel rhomphaia only weigh about an ounce more than a high carbon iron rhomphaia would probably weigh so one would expect them to handle much like the real thing.

These are more of a cut and thrust weapon like a fighting spear or a rifle and bayonet rather than something like a chopping and cleaving weapon like a falx.

The long rhomphaia is light enough and balanced well enough to be used one hand, but you would have to use it like a short spear. On the up side you could do so while holding your shield in your other hand. On the down side it would take away most of the weapon's flexibility and power.

[Et tu brute]

These are more of a cut and thrust weapon like a fighting spear or a rifle and bayonet rather than something like a chopping and cleaving weapon like a falx.

That surprises me a little, though I can definately see it being useful as you've described it, but with less offensive potential.

[Dan Z]

Do we know the reason why the blade goes into the T shape? It seems rather needless really, and is only making the blade weaker.

The T-shape actually makes the T-shaped part of the blade very strong, but it makes it a little difficult to cut through things - like the soft bits of an opponent. Since the last 6 to 8 inches of the blade are wedge shaped, you can slash through things to your heart's content. You just have to be careful to not get the tip stuck in the rim of an enemy shield or buried too deeply inside and an enemy's chest. That's when the tip will break, but at least you can still keep fighting.

[Dan Z]

These are more of a cut and thrust weapon like a fighting spear or a rifle and bayonet rather than something like a chopping and cleaving weapon like a falx.

That surprises me a little, though I can definitely see it being useful as you've described it, but with less offensive potential.

These are basically a Hellenistic era weapon. They appeared when the phalanx was all the rage and vanished when the phalanx fell out of favor. You can generate a huge amount of leverage with these when you use them with two hands and the I-beam grip with a T-shape blade make for a weapon than can put that leverage to good use.

My personal theory is that the rhomphaia was used for much the same purpose as the Medieval zweihander - it allowed the wielder to force his way past the pikes so he could stab and slash the pikemen.

The Thracians also spent a great deal of time fighting each other and they were mostly a spear culture so the rhomphaia would also allow you to go one on one with someone using a spear and shield.

[Et tu brute]

Do we know the reason why the blade goes into the T shape? It seems rather needless really, and is only making the blade weaker.

The T-shape actually makes the T-shaped part of the blade very strong, but it makes it a little difficult to cut through things - like the soft bits of an opponent. Since the last 6 to 8 inches of the blade are wedge shaped, you can slash through things to your heart's content. You just have to be careful to not get the tip stuck in the rim of an enemy shield or buried too deeply inside and an enemy's chest. That's when the tip will break, but at least you can still keep fighting.

I'd imagine that could be problematic, getting the blade stuck in the rib-cage would be a problem i'd imagine.

My personal theory is that the rhomphaia was used for much the same purpose as the Medieval zweihander - it allowed the wielder to force his way past the pikes so he could stab and slash the pikemen.

Yes, i'd think that such a weapon would wreak havoc in the densely packed formations like the phalanx etc.

[brennivs - tony drake]

hock: Dan I must admit I have never came across this swords have you any pics of the origonals yours look great thanks for shareing them
Regards Brennivs

[Dan Z]

Thanks for the kind words! 8)

Most of my reference pictures were on Christopher Webber's old Thracian website which is currently down because he is putting together a new website.

Lurking in the depths of my hard drive, however, I found this picture of an archeological drawing that was on the old site. I hope you will forgive the little scale that I added off to the side - I used cut and paste to reproduce the original scale on the drawing so that it ran from the top of the picture to the bottom. It makes it easier to see how long the weapons are.

If I can lay my hands on a nice piece of steel I think I will make one of those long straight rhomphaia. You can never have too many rhomphaia after all...

[Dan Z]

Here is a picture from the same source, again found lurking within the depths of my hard drive, of two small straight rhomphaia.

Note how the grips lack the small projections at the end and how there is no flange along the spine of the blade and how there are no flanges on the top and bottom of the tang. As I mentioned before, those are key differences between the long rhomphaia and the short rhomphaia.



As to why this is so...well...there are two possible reasons:

1. The short rhomphaia were used differently than the long rhomphaia and where therefore not subjected to the same stresses or,
2. The long rhomphaia pushed Thracian metallurgy to its limits and so they required the reinforcing features of the T-shaped blade and I-beam shaped tang in order to limit breakage while keeping the overall weigth of the weapon down. The short rhomphaia on the otherhand were well within the limits of their metallurgy and needed no such reinforcement or could be reinforced by the much simpler expedient of making them somewhat thicker.

The small rhomphaia is definitely light enough to be used with one hand and I noticed that if you slip your grip back towards the end of the hilt the blade has very similar handling characteristics to my Oakeshott Type XIIa. The Type XIIa in generally considered to have been used one handed while mounted and two handed while dismounted. I know I am putting myself out on a limb here, but I think perhaps the short rhomphaia were the back up weapon for mounted Thracians. You would have a pretty good reach with it while on horseback and when dismounted (probably because you fell off the horse seeing as you had no stirrups) you could switch to a two handed grip. I imagine it would be something like half-swording without the need to take hold of the blade since the weapon is already half blade and half grip.

[Chuck Russell]

man these were awsome. i saw them at roman days. i would llllllllove to make one one of these days. like having a giant butter knife