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Sauce question
#1
I came across a reference to a Roman sauce made from vinegar and fermented fish(I think it was) the other day, but there was no name for it, and I haven't seen anything like that elsewhere. Does anyone know what sauce this might be? Not sure about the vinegar, I just recall it used fermented(or just rotten) fish and some liquid.
"There are some who call me... Tim..."

Sic vis pacem, para bellum

Exitus acta probat

Nemo saltat sobrius

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

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#2
Smile Garum is the name. If you do a search on that name you'll find several threads discussing this tasty sauce.

Vale
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

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#3
Quote:Smile Garum is the name. If you do a search on that name you'll find several threads discussing this tasty sauce.

Vale

Thanks! Doesn't sound tasty, to be honest... But oh well, have to try everything once, eh? Tongue
"There are some who call me... Tim..."

Sic vis pacem, para bellum

Exitus acta probat

Nemo saltat sobrius

Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori

Fortes Fortuna Aduvat

"The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one! Good odds for any Greek!"
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#4
Quote:
Marcus Mummius:xm4lvcd7 Wrote:Smile Garum is the name. If you do a search on that name you'll find several threads discussing this tasty sauce.

Vale

Thanks! Doesn't sound tasty, to be honest... But oh well, have to try everything once, eh? Tongue

You're welcome.

It doesn't taste as bad as it sounds.I have a couple of bottles of asian (I don't know which country) that has fermented fish and salt as it's sole ingredients. It's good. It tastes very salty and is quite strong. You don't really taste the fish.

Vale,
Jef Pinceel
a.k.a.
Marcvs Mvmmivs Falco

LEG XI CPF vzw
>Q SER FEST
http://www.LEGIOXI.be
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#5
Take a look here: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/enc ... garum.html

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/ ... garum.html

By the way, its origin is Greek. Smile
Ioannis Georganas, PhD
Secretary and Newsletter Editor
The Society of Ancient Military Historians
http://www.ancientmilitaryhistorians.org/


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#6
Quote:Take a look here: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/enc ... garum.html

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Ithaca/ ... garum.html

By the way, its origin is Greek. Smile

Perhaps the Greeks "invented" it. You'd expect that of those "clever Greeks", but the Romans made it our own.

LOL

(Perhaps a little Roman chauvinism is showing.)
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#7
Just letting you know before you judge too harshly that Worchestershire Sauce is a sauce made of vinegar, garlic, and fermented anchovies, etc. before you assume that it has to taste horrible. I'm not saying garum was the exact same, but it does say that there is hope for it tasting good. Its not my area though so I really can't say whether there is any fact to the idea that Worchestershire Sauce makes a good substitute, though from some of what I've seen doubt is cast on whether people have been doing garum right in the past. Very good link by the way and I learned a good bit about it.
Derek D. Estabrook
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#8
Quote:Just letting you know before you judge too harshly that Worchestershire Sauce is a sauce made of vinegar, garlic, and fermented anchovies, etc. before you assume that it has to taste horrible. I'm not saying garum was the exact same, but it does say that there is hope for it tasting good. Its not my area though so I really can't say whether there is any fact to the idea that Worchestershire Sauce makes a good substitute, though from some of what I've seen doubt is cast on whether people have been doing garum right in the past. Very good link by the way and I learned a good bit about it.

The Romans often added herbs and spices which the Asian sauces don't, and most of the Asian sauces use anchovies for the fish which gives a very strong flavor, and add sugar as well. From my experience, the Philippine versions often use other fish and sometimes just mackerel, and generally no sugar.

It tastes completely different than Worcestershire. IMHO.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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#9
As noted on other threads discussing garum and its variants, Asian fish sauce is very close to a 'garum type' sauce and can be used in roman recipes as a substitute to good effect.
Bear in mind that garum and asian fish sauce is generally used as a cooking ingredient, not like worcestershire sauce or ketchup added to food after cooking ( though it can be used as a dipping sauce for those who like the taste)
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace, ODES
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" -GeorgeC Scott as General George S. Patton
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#10
I am by no means an expert cook. However I have been experimenting with the Asian fish sauces a bit. While the addition of sugar to the Asian sauces wouldn't appear to make a big difference, it can in certain circumstances. As I see it, the problem is that the sugar in the fish sauce has a tendency to caramelize under heat. Whether that heat is from a pan or an oven. Not a bad thing necessarily, but probably not how Roman garum would have responded to cooking.

In recipes that call for both garum and honey prior to cooking, the addition of a small amount of sugar probably has very little effect.

Again just my two asses worth.
>|P. Dominus Antonius|<
Leg XX VV
Tony Dah m

Oderint dum metuant - Cicero
Si vis pacem, para bellum - Vegetius
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