Linothorax design/construction

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

So youy do think that the classical linothorax was all linen or all leather,and that this "evolution" and middle step was only for some years in the archaic times?
I dunno about the pteryges.Much later bronze cuirasses had leather or linen pteryges as well,and from different cultures.I don't know if it was part of the evolution,if it ever took place.

[PMBardunias]

So youy do think that the classical linothorax was all linen or all leather,and that this "evolution" and middle step was only for some years in the archaic times?

Sure, I hoped I had made that clear. The plates would account for the box shape and the transition, but I believe that the linothorax became lighter during the 5th century just as the helmets did.

I dunno about the pteryges.Much later bronze cuirasses had leather or linen pteryges as well,and from different cultures.I don't know if it was part of the evolution,if it ever took place.

Do you have other examples with a greek bell cuirasse? Or are you considering the bronze thorakes that reemerge later? We have to be careful with them since they may be in imitation of the older form and include contemporary elements from the then common linothorax. We must be careful of fashion- think of the renaissance "throrakes"!

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yes I was talking about the later muscled an metal thorakes.Don't remember any other bell cuirasse,since moist of them had the mitra to protect the groin.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

for example there is no way there are plates in there
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/im ... 93.01.0381

[PMBardunias]

for example there is no way there are plates in there

Now, that is perhaps the worst rendition of a linothorax I have seen. :wink: I presume you mean because it appears flexible. I'd agree with the caution that artists sometimes have a way of making stiff armor fluid:

[PMBardunias]

here's a little pierced bronze plate that the author mentions might be a scale. Don't think you'd need so many holes for scale, but perhaps an embedded plate? yea, weak I know, but it's a start. Maybe its a piece of a helmet and pierced for lining.

I'm searching the Isthmian dig for more, and hopefully larger pierced bronze plates.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Here's a bell cuirass eith pteryges or something similar.From the Berlin hydria painter

[Dan Howard]

here's a little pierced bronze plate that the author mentions might be a scale. Don't think you'd need so many holes for scale, but perhaps an embedded plate? yea, weak I know, but it's a start. Maybe its a piece of a helmet and pierced for lining.

I'm searching the Isthmian dig for more, and hopefully larger pierced bronze plates.

I've been researching scale and lamellar armour typologies for years - including medieval jacks of plate and brigandines and have seen nothing that even remotely looks like this photo. I don't think it has anything at all to do with body armour.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Do you think the vase paintings with the dots could be translated this way?
Well,OK,I know the answer "It could be a possibility but nothing can be said without extra evidence".I just wanted to share the comparison.
Khairete
Giannis

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Do you think the dots shown on vases especially in Persian linothorakes but not only, could be interpreted this way?
Well,OK,i know the answer "It could be a possibility but nothing can be said without extra evidence".I just wanted to share the comparison.
Khairete
Giannis

[Sean Manning]

Lets see... where is that armour from- China? Most of the Persepolis and Memphis finds of scales were pretty clearly from conventional scale, but there were a few rectangular oddballs at Memphis with about 5 holes at each short end, or many down one long side. And that does show that you can get a 'coat of plates' with many scales of the same size and shape.

The vase armour and museum armour look quite simular though, though, and we do only have two or three major finds of scales from the Achaemenid era. Laus ad te!

[Jason Hoffman]

I have been reading this thread and it is so frustrating to see that it has got so little distance from its origin, for the record i will introduce a few frescos of linothorax that have survived;

1. Sarcophagus of the Priest
2. Bella Tumulus, Tomb Fresco
3. Levkadhia, Great Tomb
4. Sarcophagus of the Amazons
5. Vulci, Francois tomb

All of these frescos show linothoraxes painted for the majority in white and decorated with blues, pinks, reds and other colours. I have not come across a single image painted in antiquity of a linothorax that is brown.

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[Tarbicus]

5. Vulci, Francois tomb

[url:1pvw0ara]http://www.maravot.com/Etruscan_mural_francois.gif[/url]

[Dan Howard]

About time you responded Jason. I was ready to give up in frustration. Most of this thread can be trashed as soon as you publish your research.

[PMBardunias]

All of these frescos show linothoraxes painted for the majority in white and decorated with blues, pinks, reds and other colours. I have not come across a single image painted in antiquity of a linothorax that is brown.

Is there a reason to assume these are dyed linen as opposed to dyed leather?