09-12-2007, 01:35 PM
Quote:I think that you will find he is advocating the Persian leather tubular arm-bands ( he refers to its flexibility) for the 'bridle-hand' ( left) which goes all the way to the shoulder, but is suggesting that this would hamper a throw, so he advocates a 'free' shoulder
I seem to recall discussing this a while back on another list and someone produced images of metal thoraxes with altered right shoulder openings. I'll hunt it down. My real issue was what is so different about throwing the javelin as opposed to the manner in which hoplites stab.
While reading Xenophon I think I answered my own question.
Quote:For the skillful man may throw the one and can use the other in front or on either side or behind.
Quote:If a man, in the act of advancing his left side, drawing back his right, and rising from his thighs, discharges the javelin with its point a little upwards, he will give his weapon the strongest impetus and the furthest carrying power
The answer is in the fact that a greater range of motion is expected of the horseman. Not a simple forward or downward thrust, but attacks to any quarter. Also, when throwing he turns his left shoulder forwardand the right arm must now have even more range of motion to throw across his body.
You will note that many advocate the left shoulder forward stance for fighting hoplites. This is surely seen on a majority of images and had been erroneously invoked to describe how the aspis can protect the whole body at once. What is lost in the static image is that the shoulders square as he strikes- he does not try to jab around his head. One author likened his stance to a fencer, inexplicably since the fencer's weapon is in the fore-hand (a fencer with dagger or buckler in the left hand would be a better model and they have a different stance).
The need to modify the thorax to strike across your body axis would seem to indicate that this did not happen in normal hoplite combat.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"