Posts: 8,090
Threads: 505
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation:
0
Here we go:
'Legionary physicians were considered all to be of equal rank, had no immediate medical superiors and were subordinate only to their camp commander (praefectus castrorum), or in his absence, the tribunes of the legion. It was their task to supervise the food, clothing, encampment and general hygiene of the troops and to run the camp hospital.'
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/content2.php/cid=219
Battlefield medicine - The Ancient World 2000 BC-AD 500
by Ian McCulloch
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
Posts: 93
Threads: 12
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation:
0
JIM: Thats a cool but of info Jim. I have never heard of that before either!
TONY: No worries Tony, Take your time and I will be all ears when you have time. Thanks for posting the close ups.
MARTIN: Thanks for posting your link as well!
Decimus Apollonius
(Brian Camp)
Legio IX HISPANA
COHORS III EXPUGNATOR
Centuria I HIBERNICI
CON VIII AP
Legio IX Hispana Web Site:
[url:l69cdju8]http://www.legio-ix-hispana.org/[/url]
Posts: 1,677
Threads: 75
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
5
Quote:Here we go:
'Legionary physicians were considered all to be of equal rank, had no immediate medical superiors and were subordinate only to their camp commander (praefectus castrorum), or in his absence, the tribunes of the legion. It was their task to supervise the food, clothing, encampment and general hygiene of the troops and to run the camp hospital.'
http://www.ospreypublishing.com/content2.php/cid=219
Battlefield medicine - The Ancient World 2000 BC-AD 500
by Ian McCulloch
Jim, thanks for digging it up. However, I must say that I find this doubtful and would like to see what sources it builds on. Reading Davies, Nutton and other established scholars on this field (see e.g. my list above) suggests that much is unclear with respect to what medical title meant what, what were the numbers of medical doctors and other medical personel with the army and how the army's medical service was structured exactly.
Posts: 1,597
Threads: 83
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation:
56
I must admit I have not come across that :? D
Thanks for all the nice comments but if you came to me for treatment the imortal words "This wont hurt a bit" :lol: may sound true :?:
If I can stop making swords I am going to make both versions of a Quadrivalve Speculum and a interal Staphylagra hock: something to make your eyes water :lol: I dont have to many photos of the main kit but I also made a small herb cupboard with scales ect and glasses ,jars for the main carries lard,honey,vineger ect as well as my own medicinal WINE which for some strange reason seems to be the main cure all thing
Regards Brennivs
Woe Ye The Vanquished
Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
Caratacvs
Centvrio Princeps Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
Posts: 8,090
Threads: 505
Joined: Jan 2005
Reputation:
0
Quote:Jim, thanks for digging it up. However, I must say that I find this doubtful and would like to see what sources it builds on.
My thoughts exactly. If he'd quoted the sources I'd give it more kudos, which is a shame. But, it's an interesting thing to say nevertheless, and given his background, including a degree in military history, I can't but help feel it should be considered possible at least, although not definite at all. It does suggest a reason for the fort hospital being located next to the granaries in so many cases, IIRC?
TARBICvS/Jim Bowers
A A A DESEDO DESEDO!
Posts: 4,887
Threads: 163
Joined: Aug 2002
Reputation:
0
Just thought I'd post these pics of a selection of 'Nodge Nolan' reconstructions of medical instruments.
Instrumentarium..
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... tarium.jpg
A fancy 'tractor'
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b242/ ... ractor.jpg
Posts: 1,677
Threads: 75
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
5
Quote:I can't but help feel it should be considered possible at least, although not definite at all.
Yes, I agree.
Quote:It does suggest a reason for the fort hospital being located next to the granaries in so many cases, IIRC?
That's an interesting thought. OTOH it also seems natural for these buildings to go to the center of a camp/fortification in order to be farthest from where military action would be expected (i.e. the walls) to protect supplies and get wounded men out of the way. This would not necessarily imply a connection between the management of those buildings.
Anyway, I think I will have to pull out Davies again with your ideas in mind, Jim :-) )
Posts: 13,273
Threads: 102
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
1
Seems they had a pretty good idea as sto what food had what healing effects on the body. Was watching a documentary on the gladiators skeletons from Ephesus, and the compared the healing of a broken bone of a gladiator whose diet had high levels of strontium, and the healed bone of a peasant/common person. I think I would rather have been the gladiator! the join was perfect and well healed, the poor chaps was a mess! hock:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
Posts: 1,337
Threads: 175
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation:
0
How are the steel blades fixed in the bronze handles? Are they inserted into a split in the handle?
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
a.k.a. Paul M.
Posts: 1,677
Threads: 75
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation:
5
Quote:How are the steel blades fixed in the bronze handles? Are they inserted into a split in the handle?
Yes, almost invariably so, a slit with a somewhat wider hole at the end to prevent the blade from slipping out forwards. No rivets or anything.
Posts: 1,337
Threads: 175
Joined: Apr 2005
Reputation:
0
Thanks Martin I was wondering if they were soldered in place, as there does not appear to be a rivet.
"...quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
a.k.a. Paul M.
Posts: 139
Threads: 3
Joined: May 2005
Reputation:
0
Quote:Thanks Martin I was wondering if they were soldered in place, as there does not appear to be a rivet.
Here are some of the items in my instrumentarium, including a close up of a scalpel to illustrate Martin's comment. One theory was that the surgeon could discard a used blade by "pulling" it from the handle. Though as several different scalpels were found together in the Bingen find it would suggest that most medici would keep a complete set.
The scalpels in my set are made by Len Morgan, the Trepane kit and rather unusual saw/scalpel/round scoop is the handiwork of Steve Wagstaff. The rest are my own efforts based on various museum items I have sketched/photographed. The couching needle was inspired by Martin's incredible work on his earlier thread (though hardly worthy of comparison).
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z82/pnoons/Set3.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z82/pnoons/Set2.jpg
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z82/pnoons/Set1.jpg
Vale
Maximio
COH I BATAVORVM MCRPF
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm">http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Pete Noons in a past life
Posts: 1,597
Threads: 83
Joined: Mar 2007
Reputation:
56
Wow hock: great stuff Maximio some lovely gear ?: Ive had to make them much bigger to fit mine.
Regards Brennivs
Woe Ye The Vanquished
Brennvs 390 BC
When you have all this why do you envy our mud huts
Caratacvs
Centvrio Princeps Brennivs COH I Dacorivm (Roma Antiqvia)
Posts: 139
Threads: 3
Joined: May 2005
Reputation:
0
Thanks Brennivs, generally I find they are easy enough to handle, the probes and retractors/bone levers which I have made are all based on scale drawings or photos with measurements to match up so the sizes are fairly close to the real thing (I'm not skilled enough to say they are exact replicas).
The scalpel (5th along on set 2) is in fact not one of Len's but from a small collection made by Markus Neidhardt. It is a beautiful set but is under sized - I suspect between 2/3rd to 3/4 the original size. So that item would be impractical to use in real life as it would be too fiddly.
However of the rest they are very similar in size - and indeed design - to items we still use in modern surgery. I am very tempted to take the trepanning set into work with me. In fact until recently I worked with a neurosurgeon who preferred to create the intial burr holes with a hand drill rather than the power drills we all use nowadays. it did have a certain prosaic charm.
The two sharp/blunt bone elevators in my kit are identical to the Senn Mueller retractor used by modern orthopaedic surgeons. The only difference is the material it is made from. Bronze and brass wouldn't be safe to use given its relative softness.
By the way do you have any photos or scale plans for the small herb/medecine box you mentioned I'd love to have a crack at making one myself. Did you make it with the ornate chased lid often depicted?
A few years back at the "last Kirby Hall" I stood in our camp watching the American Civil War groups all marching past with their camp surgeon stood on the corner a hand cart infront of him loaded up with "amputated arms and legs". He repeatedly called out to the extended column of Blues and Greys "See you later boys" :lol:
Maybe if the big Kalkriese event comes off we should do something similar - try to set up a field hospital with several operating tables all being used simultaneously to portray the true horror of a post battle aftermath. Limbs (fake), Blood (some real - Byron), and guts.
Vale
Maximio
COH I BATAVORVM MCRPF
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm">http://www.romanarmy.net/auxilia.htm
Pete Noons in a past life
Posts: 13,273
Threads: 102
Joined: May 2006
Reputation:
1
Just a little note on bronze Maximio. Not sure how soft the bronze is that you mean, but I saw a reconstuction of an iron sword compared with a bronze one, and the iron one came off worse. not comparable to stainless steel mind you, but it must have been able to achieve a fair degree of hardness!
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
|