Byzantine re-enactment

[Hoplitesmores]

Truly the image of byzantines in Greece is all about scholars and religion, the whole military aspect is downplayed.Maybe its the modern "politically correct" historically incorrect theme?

[Theodosius the Great]

That sounds partially accurate. From what you and others have been telling me it sounds like the country is rife with anticlericalism so Byzantium suffers in accordance.

I find it a bit ironic that it isn't taught in schools more prominently since the original intent of the revolt against Turkish oppression was to recreate the Byzantine state from what I understand about it. Maybe if Constantinople was recaptured things would be very different today in the schools.

Either way, if I lived in "medieval" Europe I'd have preferred to be a Byzantine (i.e. a citizen living in Constantinople) rather than be some petty lord or peasant living in the Germanic kingdoms. So, the Greeks, IMO, should take pride in that they didn't descend into the same level of plight experienced by western Europe.

~Theo

[Hoplitesmores]

The original intent of the revolt was to free greeks and the clergy, in a certain amount , mostly higher ups opposed it so recreating the empire was hardly a notion they had.The theme christianity vs islam was prominent and this is what may give this impression.They(the prominent clergy) had their positions and didnt want to lose them.But low-level clerics and some others were supportive.Still there were revolts before 1821 for 400 years.I dont see any byzantian dreams expressed other than freedom in a greek state.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, I know little about the war as good books on the subject are hard to find here in scotland, but it is also the first I have heard of a dream to recreate the Byzantine Empire...... :?

[spyros]

We could "modify" these guys here!
[url:35vmurfl]http://good-times.webshots.com/album/558729606xJmebA?track_pagetag=/page/photo/goodtimes/goodtimes&track_action=/ViewActions/FullAlbum[/url]

These guys are form the ARMA Hellas. More info here http://www.thearma.gr/

They are very helpfull.

[hoplite14gr]

Martin, the 10th-11th century Varangian guards would be more Viking like.
So to reanct them you need the classic Scandinavian gear with cloacks and chitons of south eastern Europe. Asumig you reeanct an officer silk or cootn is quite appropriate instead of wool.
The late 12th 13th century troops would folow more the fashion s of their day . The Scandivanian elemet is stressed in the Guard because it closer to the intented public of the book in the market. Russain book tent to stress the slavonic element and the German foot guards of the late 13th century are more or less unknown.

The current look of ARMA (hellas) as I said would make a good LATINIKON impression.

Kind regards

[Theodosius the Great]

The original intent of the revolt was to free greeks and the clergy, in a certain amount , mostly higher ups opposed it so recreating the empire was hardly a notion they had.The theme christianity vs islam was prominent and this is what may give this impression.They(the prominent clergy) had their positions and didnt want to lose them.But low-level clerics and some others were supportive.Still there were revolts before 1821 for 400 years.I dont see any byzantian dreams expressed other than freedom in a greek state.

The notion may have existed on a subconscious level. There was a concerted effort to recapture Constantinople and I think the main reason for that was to make it the new capital of a Greek-speaking state. So, in effect, I think that would have recreated the semblance of a reborn Byzantine state.

As it turned out, the Revolt wasn't even sucessful in restoring all of ancient Hellas. There's still Thrace and the western coast of Anatolia which was the oldest part of it.

BTW, in the 17th century there was a professed goal to recreate the empire during a major revolt against the Turks. I must've transposed that fact onto the 19th century Revolt, my mistake.

~Theo

[egfroth]

Just thought I'd take the time to point out that today is May 29th - the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. An Empire that lasted 1120 years and 19 days, and achieved some of the highest glory militarily, culturally, intellectually - and artistically.

To this day the word "Byzantine" is synonymous with splendour (when it's not being used to describe labyrinthine intrigue, something the Eastern Romans were rather good at, as well - though I think Gibbon has a lot to answer for).

[spyros]

I sent two birds to the Red Apple tree, of which the legends speak
One was killed, the other was hurt, and they never came back to me.
Of the marble emperor there is no word, no talk.
But grandmothers sing about him to the children like a fairy tale.
I sent two birds, two house martins, to the Red Apple Tree.
But there they stayed and became a dream...

[Robert Vermaat]

Just thought I'd take the time to point out that today is May 29th - the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. An Empire that lasted 1120 years and 19 days.

A Black Day for the West...

But what happened on May 10th, 333, that in your opinion began this great Empire? :wink:

[Hoplitesmores]

A day of wolves and shattered shields.It was that day.

[Theodosius the Great]

But what happened on May 10th, 333, that in your opinion began this great Empire? :wink:

I was thinking about that too. There was an unbroken succession of Emperors stretching from Augustus all the way up to the Fourth Crusade, so that's about twelve-hundred and thirty-something odd years at the very least. Personally, I start counting from 753 BC and stop at 1453 AD, so...2,206 years by my reckoning.

In the immediate centuries following the fall of the Western Empire, the Eastern Emperors were still educated to look back to Augustus as their primary predecessor and not Constantine (though the latter may have superseded Augustus in imperial ideology in later centuries). At least, that's what the Oxford Encyclopedia of Byzantium says.

~Theo

[egfroth]

Oops - 18 days, not 19. May 11th. The High Mass held by Constantine in Hagia Irene, where he dedicated Constantinople as the new Capital of the Empire.

As good a date as any, and better than most, with the shifting of the centre of the Empire from Rome to Constantinople, to count as the beginning of the "Byzantine" Empire.

[Comerus Gallus]

Just thought I'd take the time to point out that today is May 29th - the anniversary of the fall of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. An Empire that lasted 1120 years and 19 days, and achieved some of the highest glory militarily, culturally, intellectually - and artistically.

To this day the word "Byzantine" is synonymous with splendour (when it's not being used to describe labyrinthine intrigue, something the Eastern Romans were rather good at, as well - though I think Gibbon has a lot to answer for).

If you all celebrate the day or its fundation...

please join me Here & cheer with me!

[Peter Raftos]

For those interested Byzantium, the Varangians and other interesting areas of history there seems to be a trend developing amongst re-enactors and living historians around the world:

Acoluthi Imperatoris - http://www.acoluthi.com/

Gwardia Wareska - http://www.gwareska.prv.pl/

Hetaireia Palatiou - http://members.lycos.co.uk/palacecompany/

Imperiales Friderici II - http://www.stupormundi.it/imperiales.htm

Levantia - http://www.levantia.com.au/

New Varangian Guard - http://www.nvg.org.au/

Scholón kai Tágmata - http://www.erlebniswelt-geschichte.de/Byzanz/index.htm ( Website under construction but contact can be made with Daniel Maul [email protected] )

Tagma De Byzance - http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/tagma/

The number of Kievan Rus groups with a Varangian twist in Poland, Germany and Russia is also growing.