Can anyone help me? For one of my next illustrations, I need this charming young man
[attachment=9429]wp_lentulus-sky.jpg[/attachment]
in a toga (as he's not only a military tribune, but also an augur).
Does anyone know what size his clavi would be? He's from a senatorial family (Cornelii Lentuli), but not of senatorial rank himself (being just a tribune at the Battle of Cannae, though he later goes through the cursus honorum). Is that significant for the clavi? Would he have laticlavi because he's of senatorial birth, or angusticlavi, because he hasn't served in any high office yet (apart from augur, but I suppose that doesn't count?)
I'd be happy about pointers.
Jenny Dolfen
My illustrated novel project: [URL="http://darknessovercannae.com/"]Darkness over Cannae[/URL]
As a man of patrician birth he would have the right to wear two broad purple stripes (clavi) on his white tunic and the patrician boot (calceus patricius). This is possibly red with black thongs. As he is still no magistrate he would wear the white toga pura without clavus.
In his profession as augur he would simply pull the toga on his head when "at work". If he would be an augur within a collegium of priests he might wear a special priestly dress like the laena and the apex hat.
In his military function due to his high birth he may well be a Tribunus Laticlavus and would wear the Cingilum Millitaer around the chest on his Cuirass, he may well serve next to a Legatus Legionis where he might serve for a couple of years to gain experience. Then return home to Rome where he might be given an administrative type of job for a few years until about 30 and be given the rank of Praetor.
Andreas, the arringatore is my best friend right now, yes. I didn't know that you wore the clavi on your tunic before you were entitled to one on your toga! Very cool, thanks.
The laena and apex was worn by flamines, wasn't it? I'll just leave Lentulus without it - toga drawn across his head, yes, I knew that.
Brian, AFAIK it's not known when Lentulus served as praetor - he became a quaestor in 212 and aedile in 205, and was elected consul in 201. In my version of Cannae, he does serve in a function close to consul Paullus, though I don't go into detail as to his exact rank, apart from augur and tribune. So only the tribunus laticlavius wears the sash? I didn't know that! Thanks. I put him next to Paullus mainly because of the family ties between the Aemilii and the Cornelii; it made sense, and then of course, we have the teary death scene of Paullus, in which Lentulus features.
Jenny Dolfen
My illustrated novel project: [URL="http://darknessovercannae.com/"]Darkness over Cannae[/URL]
The width of lati clavi was 7,5 cm according to sculptural evidence (life-size equestrian statue from Pompeii in the Naples-Museum). Unfortunately I can’t find the picture at the moment. The angusti clavi would be between 1,2 and 2 cm wide on the other hand.
Senior officers could wear a sash over their cuirass, which was called zona militaris or cinctorium.
Lentulus could have become anything in his life time but a legatus legionis. Legati as sub-commanders were introduced by Caesar during his Gallic Campaign on an irregular basis first. Under Augustus then the legatus as a legion-commander became common practice. Before that each legio was led by a tribunus laticlavus, while 4 legiones formed a consular army commanded by a consul.
HI Andreas, thanks! I didn't mean that Lentulus might be a legate - he serves with Paullus, who is one of four consuls and proconsuls commanding the army at Cannae.
Nothing like the rank of legatus at that time? That surprises me. A lot of the historical books I've read talk about Servilius Geminus (proconsul) and Minucius Rufus (magister equitum in 217) as commanding the eight legions next to the two consuls, and they certainly were not tribunes, and are sometimes referred to as legates. I call them legates once or twice in the narrative. I wouldn't know what else to call them.
Jenny Dolfen
My illustrated novel project: [URL="http://darknessovercannae.com/"]Darkness over Cannae[/URL]
If those men assisted the consuls leading the army the term „legatus“ is indeed correct, since it means nothing more than deputy/delegate.
But the actual ranks of “legatus Augusti pro praetore” (commander of a provincial army) and “legatus legionis” (legion commander) are Augustan.
That works, then. Minucius and Servilius commanded two legions each, in the centre, with the remaining four divided between Varro and Paullus, the consuls, who commanded the wings in person.
I was already worried I might have to break it to my layout helper that we had to do *yet* more changes.
Many thanks for your help, everyone!
Jenny Dolfen
My illustrated novel project: [URL="http://darknessovercannae.com/"]Darkness over Cannae[/URL]
Glad I could be of any assistance. But I have to point out that I am by no means an expert regarding the Republican Roman Army. All I did was an in-depth study of the Augustan army for a book project. This is how I know that the rank of a “legatus legionis” was one of the new features set in motion by Augustus. Before this period we have to regard the legatus rather as a function than a rank.
Ah. I thought so. But that is not a "Roman" helmet, and chronologically also not really fitting. It would have been a quite old piece of booty at Cannae. Apart from a few pieces which probably travelled with mercenaries or by trade to other parts of Italy (and one to Greece) all these helmets stem from Apulian upper-class burials. They were in use from the 5th century onwards just a bit into the third century. No piece was found with cheek pieces, and there is no reason to assume that they were ever worn with cheek pieces. Despite the fact that you see them in "reconstruction" drawings quite often worn by Romans and from other periods. This started I think with P. Connolly and was ever copied by others, who apparently never made proper research. See online PhD thesis by Paddock, available through ETHOS, p. 78ff.
Best!
Ah. I'll freely admit to being a major Peter Connolly fan.
What sort of helmet would you put on a military tribune?
Not sure I'll change it; a few illus are already done and I don't know I'll change them... might just call it a nod to Connolly...
It's a tough situation I'm in. What I probably should do is put in a few loricae segmentatae and Weisenau helmets, so that anyone who knew a bit about the subject would move on with a sigh and not bother with mistakes. By *trying* to be accurate, I actually open myself to a lot more criticism all around. The world is unfair sometimes...
Jenny Dolfen
My illustrated novel project: [URL="http://darknessovercannae.com/"]Darkness over Cannae[/URL]
Quote:Ah. I thought so. But that is not a "Roman" helmet, and chronologically also not really fitting. It would have been a quite old piece of booty at Cannae. Apart from a few pieces which probably travelled with mercenaries or by trade to other parts of Italy (and one to Greece) all these helmets stem from Apulian upper-class burials. They were in use from the 5th century onwards just a bit into the third century. No piece was found with cheek pieces, and there is no reason to assume that they were ever worn with cheek pieces. Despite the fact that you see them in "reconstruction" drawings quite often worn by Romans and from other periods. This started I think with P. Connolly and was ever copied by others, who apparently never made proper research. See online PhD thesis by Paddock, available through ETHOS, p. 78ff.
Best!
Christian,
We need you more often on this forum. ;-)
Valete,
Titvs Statilivs Castvs - Sander Van Daele LEG XI CPF
COH VII RAET EQ (part of LEG XI CPF)
I didn't know that you wore the clavi on your tunic before you were entitled to one on your toga! Very cool, thanks.
